Saturday, October 25, 2008

Think ahead

Here is a self-quote, dated January 3rd 2008, from my post On the Edge:

“What is currently much more scary is the global economical instability. I am not much of an an economist, but even I sense there will be some major economical crisis rather soon, possibly even this year. If you need any indicators, take Bush talking about the 'fundamentals of the economy being strong'. The whole situation in the US is incredibly unstable. There is a large percentage of people living damned close by poverty level. If their situation gets only slightly worse, they will be pushed to fight for survival, not because they want to, but because they have no other way out.”

This just came back into my mind after reading “Crises on Many Fronts” by Bob Herbert in today's NYT.
“But if we are indeed caught up in the most severe economic crisis since the Great Depression, the ones who will fare the worst are those who already are poor or near-poor. There are millions of them, and yet they remain essentially invisible. A step down for them is a step into destitution.”

Right. And if we wait another year, then maybe somebody will come to realize what I meant with unstable did include the political situation.

17 comments:

Phil Warnell said...

Hi Bee,

How can any not help but to agree as for any structure to be stable it is only sound as the foundation on which it is built. In as the poorest in this respect by definition form to be at the bottom, then they in turn must be considered what constitutes to be the foundation. I would remind however that what comprises to be required the most is they must be continually assured as to be shown why they have and will always havereason for hope. For those that need help it’s required for it to be considered resultant of understanding while for those that provide it must be realize as it being logical compassion.

Best,

Phil

Uncle Al said...

A historic moment allows us to end endemic poverty. 30 million parasites can be cleansed from the system by the simple expedient of... wait for it... doing nothing.

Wars on Drugs, Poverty, and Education are won. Massive Federal bureaucracies are ended. Whole forests are spared when those checks are no longer mailed. Government is an ass. Wipe it and move on.

We are not passengers on Spaceship Earth, we are crew. March or die.

Phil Warnell said...

Hi Uncle Al,

I wish you may be able to avoid the consequence realized by Marie Antoinette after she expressed similar means of solution in those famous words of hers which were "qu'ils mangent de la brioche." I just thought I’d offer you a heads up on that one:-)

Best,

Phil

Bee said...

Hi Phil,

"How can any not help but to agree as for any structure to be stable it is only sound as the foundation on which it is built."

Well, it might be you're dealing with a structure that has no foundation, but is completely self-referential. What is the foundation our societies are build upon?

The only relevant factor for all our interactions that comes into my mind is mutual trust. I wouldn't see that as a basis, because it is as much a result of a well-working system as an ingredient. Thus the reason for why we are struggling is a lack of trust in our political and economical systems - a justified lack of trust if you ask me. Best,

B.

sciencetourist said...

Hello Bee,

If obese banks can refuse to lose too much weight - 'invent money for us or we won't play' - then poor people can invent money too. I'm actually regretting not having any credit card debt. As long as we're burning the Reagan legacy I'd like to join the party.

Near term it's much worse for the global poor right now. The US poor are fine until inflation next year.


'uncle' Al:

If forced to choose between 30 million 'parasites' and 1 million cranky libertarians I refer you to the 2nd Amendment. If you don't like government, stay off the public roads.

Plato said...

Imagine the befuddle look on Greenspan as he sits before the commission and saids, "I don't know what happened" after 18 years at the helm? "We have a strong economy."

People are taking stock now and in this process the accounting of our actions comes up for that review. You cannot escape this. It happens, and in retrospect you now think okay foundational, and another saids, no it's based on trust?

What is the scientific method of this that if you recognize something before hand that you moved into action. It's not enough to say I saw this way then say, I am right. It is more that you recognize what happened and in a try and tested method said, that because during this time we did this and that, the process is still ongoing.

How would you ascertain that such a structure and trickle down effect does not warrant looking at the financial institutes and the "mode of operandi for profit" would seek to balance themself and regulate? Hardly. There always has to be a profit margin or they will always consider it a loss. The poor will continue to go backward and get poorer and institution will continue to increase cost to those who have least to maintain the infrastructure.

There is still an accounting that has to go on and considering the public as "wilful participants" in profit sharing plan(bailout)there is no way for them to complain?:)

bellamy said...

Poverty level? I think there's a huge misconception and misunderstanding of things. Technically, I'm in the poverty level. I bring in maybe ten grand a year. Yet I eat better than most people, I have good lodgings, I am healthier than most (I don't need no gym nor gimmicky gear to train my body), and I have broadband internet.

Of course, I don't have any debt, no credit...and I have not bred any runts. Things to think about, folks.

(Curious, my recent 'word verifications' seem to have some strange coincidencialities. This time is was 'packedly'. Hmmm.)

Bee said...

Hi Bellamy,

We discussed the definition of poverty level here. Best,

B.

Phil Warnell said...

Hi Bee,

I understand what you mean when you say that trust and the lack there of is at the heart of many of the worlds problems. When business and governments treat people as nothing more then a variable in respect to their overall considerations, there is little to wonder why. The fact is the corporations, institutions and bureaucracies have become what are considered to be what must survive and flourish, rather then those that have created them and intended to serve.

As an example all we hear about as of late is cost cutting through lay offs at the very time when those doing so are receiving monies that are to be taken from many of the very same people they are sacrificing. How then can it be expected there be any trust in a system that behaves like this in a time of crisis. Incentives should be given to those that can maintain and create jobs rather then those that eliminate them. At the same time the people need to come to realize that they also must remain flexible as to what will be required of them in the effort to do this.

In the end however trust is built on promise, which is simply to insist that promises made are to be promises kept. This for me requires two things being considered and completely understood which are; first never make a promise which has little chance of being kept or is never intended to be and last never to confuse what are only our own expectations as being what constitutes to be a promise.

Some consider that science entails understanding how things simply work, while others imagine it to be the discovery of the nature of things revealed through aspects of character. I understand it to be the later and when the character of people is considered it is one that not only has a capacity for change yet more so a necessity to do so.

Best,

Phil

Plato said...

Bellamy:....and I have broadband internet.

Do you live in a city or a rural town?:)

Bee said...

Hi Phil,

I agree on what you say. The issue with promises however is somewhat complicated in that they often imply extrapolations in the future. Lending money is a typical example. You give me ten dollars, I promise I'll pay you back 20 next year. That means I have some expectations about the coming year. Of course there are cases that are so unlikely you better not consider them at all. Though that's exactly what has caused the present crisis: lots of promises that can't be kept. Thus, even the promises require trust - trust in the future, trust that you can 'think ahead' accurately. Best,

B.

Phil Warnell said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Phil Warnell said...

Hi Bee,

“I promise I'll pay you back 20 next year. That means I have some expectations about the coming year. Of course there are cases that are so unlikely you better not consider them at all. Though that's exactly what has caused the present crisis: lots of promises that can't be kept.”

There is an old saying that relates as a cure for what you and many are concerned about which goes “ it is better that I owe it to you then to do you out of it”. Which means that promises are still honourable and should be considered honoured if they are made so in time. This is to remind that aspects of patients and tolerance must be factors considered in trust. This as we know is caught up with expectation which at times must be tempered yet never be diminished for this is what we know to be considered as hope. I believe with you that science can give us better ways to formulate as to be able to trust our promises and also with it the understanding it has already provided and continues to expand with it reason for hope.

Best,

Phil

P.S. As Plato noted earlier they haven't invented a comment editor good enough for those as clumsy as myself :-)

bellamy said...

plato: a medium-size city. Why?


Bee: hence, I wouldn't (and don't) use the word poverty. There are many such words that aren't part of my functional vocabulary. They are irrelevant.

(Hey, and get this 'word verification': luspent. Hmmmm.)

Plato said...

Bellamy:Why?

Poverty then can come to have different expressions?

Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development 27 Feb 2004-Recommendation of the Council on Broad band Development

There should be no discriminations between rural and bustling centres(people) as to who has access to the internet. It's knowledge, and thus government action should be sought under this "full democracy."

Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee :A few years ago I chatted with a woman involved in relief work in war-ravaged areas. I wondered aloud whether Internet access should be low on the priority list after clean water, and other critical resources. She responded by telling me the story of a young man who had taught himself English, and with a connection to the Internet, how he set up his own translation business. This business provided income for the village as well as opening up new communications opportunities. I learned that I should not prioritize for others. Instead, I should listen to their concerns and opportunities and then do what I can to help.Tim Berners-Lee Speech before Knight Foundation-14 September 2008

I can say with come certainty of a intellectual and creative pool that exists, once it has been given access too, as centres of education that have to this point been made impossible because of cost to education and distance from those centres.

While I only pointed to libraries now, as to free access, I would like to see a advance and challenge to the current structures, while "currently" being sought to work in accordance by governments under business, shall under go many revisions of it's economic "monopoles" that currently exist.

Google may be wise to consider this advance in connections while the other 80% of the world population and it's access to broadband service increases.

The utility of the i-Phone? Wireless?

Best,

bellamy said...

Plato, regarding your last, and in general all such late-in-the-thread offerings, I suggest you reconvene via email. Clicking on my name will direct you to my profile, on which there is an email link.

Plato said...

Bellamy,

For future reference see this link here.

It is important that when one sees ole technology in passing, that new opportunities become available for connecting communities across a country and the world. This has been monopolized and compartmentalized, to see if it can gain the greatest profit and are currently being auction off and has been by Governments

I would suspect, that if these changes I am presenting "are developed" that new strategies would have to be developed by the Coalition to deal with it.

This is an initiative then for better minds then mine to implement.

Best,