tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post8474468180047591566..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: Outraged about the Google diversity memo? I want you to think about it.Sabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger125125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-67049931369594189892017-09-18T05:36:42.795-04:002017-09-18T05:36:42.795-04:00If I recall correctly, Summers claimed that the ma...If I recall correctly, Summers claimed that the male distribution (even if the mean is the same) has longer tails (translate that into German and you get something of an unintended pun), so that there are more male geniuses---but also more male idiots. There seems to be some evidence for this. The strange thing is that for every male Noble-Prize winner, 3-star Michelin chef, or whatever, this Phillip Helbighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067585245603436809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-14652078061739585242017-09-15T00:51:52.877-04:002017-09-15T00:51:52.877-04:00I am surprised no-one brought up Lawrence Summers ...I am surprised no-one brought up Lawrence Summers being fired from Harvard for the same thing a decade ago. That was big deal back then. It didn't work as a narrative that time, and works even less now. lolnullnorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09297123557665009783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-31458489111828170092017-09-02T02:47:43.936-04:002017-09-02T02:47:43.936-04:00I thought I knew the answer to Stephen Schleim'...I thought I knew the answer to Stephen Schleim's statement that it is an open question whether women prefer "applied" stuff just because we're women, or just because the other, more classical fields were already dominated by men, because I chose one of the applied version of physics, electrical engineering.<br /><br />I decided to fact check it, and found that my experience may Liralenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06675133437955499435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-31707007561751817472017-08-27T07:22:18.143-04:002017-08-27T07:22:18.143-04:00Stephan,
I'd like to see a double-blind rando...Stephan,<br /><br />I'd like to see a double-blind random controlled trial before I buy into the conclusion you draw from the status-quo. More seriously, you can't justify belief in the absence of bias by postulating an absence of bias.<br /><br />As to the problems in my own field, I wasn't really serious. As previously, I was just being provocative to emphasize that lacking facts Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-9926727028504941242017-08-27T02:05:53.331-04:002017-08-27T02:05:53.331-04:00Thanks for the clarification, Sabine. Now I start ...Thanks for the clarification, Sabine. Now I start to get an idea of what you mean.<br /><br />But if your hypothesis – that men are (generally) good followers and bad leaders – is correct, then it occurs to me that, on average, companies and armies led by women should outperform and should, in the past, have outperformed such institutions lead by men. Given the high competitive pressure it then Stephan Schleimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08739712916692341219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-55965664284238192012017-08-26T07:30:32.097-04:002017-08-26T07:30:32.097-04:00Stephan,
Higher positions in any field require mo...Stephan,<br /><br />Higher positions in any field require more people skills and more divergent thinking. It's reasonable to argue that men really are better suited to work out details of some very specialized applications. They're good followers and bad leaders - on the average, on the average. Much of the idiocy you see in my field - like people trying to outcompete each other to solve Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-52650928664197748612017-08-25T10:24:29.769-04:002017-08-25T10:24:29.769-04:00Philosopher Bertrand Russell once discussed the ex...Philosopher Bertrand Russell once discussed the example that we cannot rule out the possibility that there is a teapot (Russell was British) floating somewhere between Earth and Mars.<br /><br />Now assume that I stated that there were such a teapot. What right would I have to expect of you to prove me wrong? And what credibility would my view have, just on the basis of me stating it?<br /><br />Stephan Schleimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08739712916692341219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-22469000136400106542017-08-24T03:03:35.410-04:002017-08-24T03:03:35.410-04:00Stephan,
That's right, it's difficult to ...Stephan,<br /><br />That's right, it's difficult to argue against it. You understood the purpose of my comment correctly. <br /><br />Actually it seems we don't live in a world where individuals are protected from discrimination. Yes, sooner or later someone is going to sue over this. Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-16478180816536929092017-08-24T02:45:28.567-04:002017-08-24T02:45:28.567-04:00Thanks for your courage to share your thoughts.
Y...Thanks for your courage to share your thoughts.<br /><br />You simply state but do not argue that/why women are better suited for high positions in politics or science; therefore it is also difficult to argue against your hypothesis.<br /><br />Furthermore, I think that your view on the "opportunity costs" of affirmative action must be expanded: You mention that under such conditions, Stephan Schleimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08739712916692341219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-31978712792103814912017-08-23T00:48:07.188-04:002017-08-23T00:48:07.188-04:00@ e.rego
I'm not sure who you mean by "y...@ e.rego <br />I'm not sure who you mean by "you", because I did not interpret Dr. Hossenfelder's blog post to say what you suggest, i.e., she did not say that Damore said that men are better than women in any area. So who are you talking to here?<br /><br />So I see your post as a strawman argument. And so void of logic.<br />Liralenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06675133437955499435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-11475646210393035252017-08-22T07:05:58.440-04:002017-08-22T07:05:58.440-04:00You seem to have misunderstand Damore's claims...You seem to have misunderstand Damore's claims. His 'thesis' is much more modest than trying to convey that men are better than women in any area, what he was trying to convey was that the numerical gap between genders in some areas of profession should not be solely explained by cultural segregation, although it is also a factor to consider.<br /><br />Natural inclinations, he e. rêgohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17058089650430442127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-54045862920956356402017-08-20T15:59:03.494-04:002017-08-20T15:59:03.494-04:00Imagine if this guy wasn't white. No one would...Imagine if this guy wasn't white. No one would be having these conversations right now and the individual would still have his job. Think about that. Then think about how easily many of you are led along by a media that caters to your ideologies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-16057124784662122942017-08-20T11:55:19.566-04:002017-08-20T11:55:19.566-04:00Damore absolutely NEEDED to be fired. Not for his ...Damore absolutely NEEDED to be fired. Not for his opinions per se, but by the manner in which he voiced his opinion and his obvious bias on the topic, he revealed himself not to be a good-faith actor in the system. <br /><br />Companies like google don't just operate under review by superiors, but also by peer review of your performance. After this memo, nothing Damore ever said could be RealityMonsterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18286378986794594802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-19621167687943357202017-08-16T08:34:27.590-04:002017-08-16T08:34:27.590-04:00Dear Sabine,
You should have warned Damore that h...Dear Sabine,<br /><br />You should have warned Damore that he can’t preach atheism in the Vatican. Even if atheism happens to be true. Google happens to be the Vatican of diversity and the VP of diversity is the Pope LOL Of course he can’t argue with the VP because she’s infallible! If he could reason with the faithful, it wouldn’t be the Church. It would be a philosophical club. I think Damore Dr. Strangelovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18403919518896164503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-35678167116416430482017-08-15T20:58:29.565-04:002017-08-15T20:58:29.565-04:00@Philip Helbig: "To be fair, this is somethin...@Philip Helbig: "To be fair, this is something feminism has, I think, got wrong. We've focused too much on the ways in which patriarchy is bad for women, while neglecting the ways in which it's even worse for men."<br /><br />Absolutely. Back in the '70's, it annoyed the heck out of me that men did not see that. But 40+ years later, I'm not as sympathetic, except Liralenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08422464644211442615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-17819102664262711482017-08-15T20:27:30.794-04:002017-08-15T20:27:30.794-04:00We really need an observer in a many-worlds scenar...We really need an observer in a many-worlds scenario who can see how humans would have evolved in three very distinct scenarios - if the extreme right had won (with Hitler), the extreme left had won (with Lenin, or maybe Stalin, or maybe even Pol Pot) and the current scenario, where the average idiot on social media has as big an influence as the philosophically educated pamphleteers of the pastJimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16192738560762633240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-36322056657278011092017-08-15T17:55:47.773-04:002017-08-15T17:55:47.773-04:00@Ambi Valent,
I'm with you on the definition ...@Ambi Valent,<br /><br />I'm with you on the definition issue. I hate being labeled, then attacked over something I never said just because someone else with that label said it. I wasn't even aware until recently of the baggage that the term "feminism" carries with it because back in the old days, it was "Women's Liberation" which more accurately conveyed its Liralenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08422464644211442615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-54417893100453776762017-08-15T15:57:19.274-04:002017-08-15T15:57:19.274-04:00Google = The CircleGoogle = The CircleBill Lamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02092428206818183253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-4557147583953770992017-08-15T14:39:51.336-04:002017-08-15T14:39:51.336-04:00Yet another article explaining the real science be...Yet another article explaining the real science behind Damore's amateur memo:<br /><br />https://www.wired.com/story/the-pernicious-science-of-james-damores-google-memo/<br />Rob van Son (Not a physicist, just an amateur)https://www.blogger.com/profile/12611755507524401026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-63103811740721172422017-08-15T12:46:56.859-04:002017-08-15T12:46:56.859-04:00Philip Helbig wrote: "...for a long time in t...Philip Helbig wrote: <i>"...for a long time in the history of humanity in the broad sense, different species of hominids with different mental capacities did exist at the same time"</i><br /><br />I don’t know anything about the historical populations of hominoids (e.g., Neanderthals, Cro Magnon, etc), but it’s interesting that we seem to have a fairly homogeneous human population todayAmoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00595591283398023248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-16866586482064753032017-08-15T10:22:37.713-04:002017-08-15T10:22:37.713-04:00@Philip Helbig
"It is pretty clear that the c...@Philip Helbig<br />"It is pretty clear that the cultural environment of both of these groups favours abilities which are measured on IQ tests."<br /><br />IQ is one of those things that get abused in these discussions. It is simply defined as completely genetically determined and then observed IQ group differences are attributed to genetic inferiority. The innate nature of IQ is almostRob van Son (Not a physicist, just an amateur)https://www.blogger.com/profile/12611755507524401026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-30477953050458031512017-08-15T08:56:37.295-04:002017-08-15T08:56:37.295-04:00@Philip Helbig:
That's a definition question. ...@Philip Helbig:<br />That's a definition question. What I want is a society in which people enjoy equal rights. But if I said "feminism is wrong, I want equal rights instead", I'd lose my allies while the others would reply "we already have that, now go home". So I keep supporting feminism.Ambi Valenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03488247852564879628noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-89528736001734657062017-08-15T07:28:38.448-04:002017-08-15T07:28:38.448-04:00Phillip,
ich hab nichts abgelehnt und im Spam ist...Phillip,<br /><br />ich hab nichts abgelehnt und im Spam ist auch nichts, sorry.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-89042276566432069162017-08-15T05:47:09.511-04:002017-08-15T05:47:09.511-04:00"As for male nurses and preschool teachers, o...<i>"As for male nurses and preschool teachers, or more female soldiers and garbage disposal workers - I think the only problem with that would be some people looking down on them for their jobs"</i><br /><br />Yes, but that is no different to what those people experience now. At least you and I don't look down on them.<br /><br />From one of the documents linked to above:<br /><br Phillip Helbighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067585245603436809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-52477862324556235072017-08-15T05:44:16.624-04:002017-08-15T05:44:16.624-04:00@Sabine: Gibt es ein Kommentar von mir, der nicht ...@Sabine: Gibt es ein Kommentar von mir, der nicht erschienen ist? Falls im Spam-Ordner, bitte herausholen. Falls abgelehnt, bitte schicke mir ein Email mit Begründung!<br />Phillip Helbighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067585245603436809noreply@blogger.com