tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post8310811986030438480..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: New paper claims that LIGO’s gravitational wave detection from a neutron star merger can’t be rightSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-65533353378529996212020-10-18T09:56:30.139-04:002020-10-18T09:56:30.139-04:00Baryonic matter and electrons in the intergalactic...Baryonic matter and electrons in the intergalactic medium effectively increase the refractive index of the medium, creating frequency and phase distortion which results in decrease of the velocity of propagation that varies with frequency. What is the chance that the velocity of propagation of gravity waves would fortuitously match the EM waves, a one percent difference in arrival time for an Barry Gilberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033008171729754813noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-37329182899555340112018-11-21T02:30:23.141-05:002018-11-21T02:30:23.141-05:00Unknown (a.k.a. Shoemaker)
Why don’t you explain ...Unknown (a.k.a. Shoemaker)<br /><br />Why don’t you explain that to the Danish and Italian groups in the conference room? Writing comments in somebody else’s blog with unknown name is singing November Rain in the bathroom.Enricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11062542721973950650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-74473061217430557162018-11-20T00:14:04.608-05:002018-11-20T00:14:04.608-05:00Jonathan,
I don't know why you think this has...Jonathan,<br /><br />I don't know why you think this has something to do with the radii of the atoms to begin with. What's this got to do with anything? You measure the presence/absence of an interference pattern. I don't like to explain things that have been explained in thousands of other places. Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-7806853932597862902018-11-19T16:24:00.539-05:002018-11-19T16:24:00.539-05:00Hi Sabine, I see sometimes you do "Ask Dr. B...Hi Sabine, I see sometimes you do "Ask Dr. B" posts. I do not understand how gravitational wave detectors work. If the radii of the atoms in the mirrors in the interferometer are 10^-10 meters then how can they use them to detect signals on the order of 10^-18 meters? The answer is I usually see is, "Statistics!!!," but that is not a satisfying answer to me. Can you Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-61257428028887652652018-11-19T07:52:20.764-05:002018-11-19T07:52:20.764-05:00It is not true that the EM signal observed from th...It is not true that the EM signal observed from the NS merger GW170817 was inconsistent with coming from a neutron star merger. In fact, its exactly what you expect. The gamma-ray burst observed was previously hypothesized (given strong circumstantial evidence) to come from neutron star mergers. The observed optical wavelength signal also matched remarkably well the predictions from our paper Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04451803573191074632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-34267848193210546432018-11-19T02:13:14.448-05:002018-11-19T02:13:14.448-05:00Sabine, Shoemaker, Rueda,
In the interest of ever...Sabine, Shoemaker, Rueda,<br /><br />In the interest of everybody and the scientific world, organize a two-day conference to discuss the papers. Invite LIGO, Danish and Italian groups to present their cases. Invite Sabine to report the outcome to the media and public. I’m sure Caltech, Kavli Institute, AAS or RAS would like to host this conference.Enricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11062542721973950650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-70501361883016198362018-11-19T00:10:59.794-05:002018-11-19T00:10:59.794-05:00Thx.Thx.APEppinkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13169743106191038924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-57466850817066332672018-11-18T15:14:53.618-05:002018-11-18T15:14:53.618-05:00On consensus, there is never unanimous agreement. ...On consensus, there is never unanimous agreement. Serious people do not believe in the infinite, and so discount Cantor diagonalization. And sometimes the almost unanimous consensus is wrong - the three circles of maximal area inscribed in a given triangle had an incorrect solution for centuries.<br /><br />Still, we do what we can.Matt Graysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15444613363564208069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-62913522422747446152018-11-18T01:35:23.784-05:002018-11-18T01:35:23.784-05:00Ashish,
I don't know if anyone has looked at ...Ashish,<br /><br />I don't know if anyone has looked at that. Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-47473969314080924822018-11-18T00:28:09.037-05:002018-11-18T00:28:09.037-05:00Sabine,
I have put the word "similar" i...Sabine,<br /><br />I have put the word <b>"similar"</b> in <b>bold</b> and repeated my comment below. Very interesting continued analysis of LIGO issue at your blog, but am trying to find out if there is correlation in detector noise in neutron star event, <b>"similar"</b> to that in black hole events. The answer does not seem to be available, and is this because LIGO has notAshish Sirohihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01191841016592807961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-57472009487697102752018-11-18T00:21:21.303-05:002018-11-18T00:21:21.303-05:00APEppink,
The snr is 2, not 1/2. You can find thi...APEppink,<br /><br />The snr is 2, not 1/2. You can find this in the <a href="https://arxiv.org/abs/1710.05832" rel="nofollow">original paper</a> (page 2, bottom row). The ratio does not directly transfer to the size of the displacement, it refers to how well the whole signal could be extracted from the background. Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-54616992635349434792018-11-18T00:15:37.587-05:002018-11-18T00:15:37.587-05:00Matthew,
As you can tell, it's no fun...Matthew,<br /><br />As you can tell, it's no fun...Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-43226115255627890512018-11-18T00:13:45.715-05:002018-11-18T00:13:45.715-05:00The change I made is to exchange "optical&quo...The change I made is to exchange "optical" for "electromagnetic" and to remove two words referring two the strength of the signal because Jorge pointed out, correctly of course, that the signal would be in a different frequency range for white dwarfs and that statement was therefore confusing. As these are irrelevant minor changes I didn't see the use in noting them down. Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-87495821965555860532018-11-18T00:04:10.052-05:002018-11-18T00:04:10.052-05:00Ashish,
Similar to what? I'm afraid I don'...Ashish,<br /><br />Similar to what? I'm afraid I don't understand the question.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-21987577746111951542018-11-17T23:14:45.068-05:002018-11-17T23:14:45.068-05:00"event. (The VIRGO measurement of that event ..."event. (The VIRGO measurement of that event has a signal-to-noise ratio of merely two, so it doesn’t increase the significance all that much.)"<br /><br />There's certainly something I'm not understanding. The 1/2? s/n ratio. Since gravity wave signal displacement is on the order of 1/2 a proton diameter, I'd think ambient noise world swamp discrimination software.<br /><brAPEppinkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13169743106191038924noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-12010969020147075202018-11-17T20:15:06.694-05:002018-11-17T20:15:06.694-05:00So now you add "investigative journalist"...So now you add "investigative journalist" to your philosophy of science credentials! Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03016608637645316849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-68870087632955675202018-11-17T15:46:08.879-05:002018-11-17T15:46:08.879-05:00My comment is about the 2nd update: "The non-...My comment is about the 2nd update: "The non-corresponding ... He seems somewhat unhappy about his co-author’s statements...". For the transparency of the readers I would like to tell that the blog author and I exchanged few emails in which I alerted the incorrectness of astro and technical aspects of the blog when summarizing the results of our paper (and other about basic physics). Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10774333521465744150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-8574512382798701682018-11-17T15:24:06.522-05:002018-11-17T15:24:06.522-05:00This text was very enlightening, both in dismissin...This text was very enlightening, both in dismissing the italian paper claims and exposing how (some bad) scientists deal with the controversy, which should be the fuel of their researching instead of some kind of personal offence. <br /><br />Prof. Ruffini is reputed as 'saying to have a genial idea per minute' among the HE atrophysicists, and making 'groundbreaking' affirmations atMalkyorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08214737235717339100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-55744694747754090462018-11-17T10:56:14.070-05:002018-11-17T10:56:14.070-05:00Sabine,
Thanks for clarifying. From the data that...Sabine,<br /><br />Thanks for clarifying. From the data that *is* available for the neutron star event, can one analyse if there is "similar" correlation found in detector noise?<br /><br />"Similar" term is referenced from (quoting from my comment on your "Story about LIGO noise resurfaces in New Scientist"):<br />The Danish group's paper "On the time lags Ashish Sirohihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01191841016592807961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-42636215117123805332018-11-17T06:22:05.717-05:002018-11-17T06:22:05.717-05:00Jan,
As they say in section 3.3 "To provide ...Jan,<br /><br />As they say in section 3.3 "To provide a rough estimate of this uncertainty, we have also considered the possibility of a free ±10% scaling of the templates... The results are nearly identical to those of Fig. 7. Considering that the residual noise is significantly greater than the uncertainly introduced by the family of templates, this is not surprising. It would appear thatSabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-51052596349582513332018-11-17T02:43:35.237-05:002018-11-17T02:43:35.237-05:00Sean,
How large do you think a fraction of people...Sean,<br /><br />How large do you think a fraction of people who disagree is allowed to be? Where do you get the number from? And have you checked your number with the actual number? In which group? Why this group? And how does it even matter? Whoever said that scientific evidence should be rated by head counts? <br /><br />I think this insistence of US-Americans to argue by way of "Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-76678589471219854912018-11-17T01:03:47.751-05:002018-11-17T01:03:47.751-05:00Ashish,
But the data *is* availabe, as I point ou...Ashish,<br /><br />But the data *is* availabe, as I point out in the very sentence you quote. What is not available is the larger time-series around the event and (so my understanding) the template. In any case, the Italians didn't look at it. Best,<br /><br />B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-25923602653795144852018-11-16T13:59:02.812-05:002018-11-16T13:59:02.812-05:00Unless the schedule has slipped, full public data ...Unless the schedule has slipped, full public data release for LIGO's O2 data will be in 2019Q1, i.e. one year after the end of O2. As with the schedule of O1's public data release this has not changed for years as far as I know and that information was publically available.<br /><br />Also, I don't fully get why the full data set is really necessary for analyzing a relatively short Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10895680010959537211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-116068522798903552018-11-16T13:50:58.161-05:002018-11-16T13:50:58.161-05:00"Alas, this data does not include the 2017 ev..."Alas, this data does not include the 2017 event that is under discussion here. For this event only a time-window is available."<br />And does our dear Shoemaker provide a reason for why data for this most important event is lacking, while it is available for others?<br /><br />"For most physicists, including me, this detection removed any remaining doubts about LIGO’s Ashish Sirohihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01191841016592807961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-58750050618725776272018-11-16T13:41:52.120-05:002018-11-16T13:41:52.120-05:00Neutron stars are complicated objects. They have a...Neutron stars are complicated objects. They have an iron crust in a degenerate state, with the next layer being nuclei and neutrons in a complicated mixture o, then a neutron liquid, followed if the star is large enough by a quark-gluon plasma at the core. Two neutron stars that collide will then in a way splash such that the scattering material cools into heavy nuclei. Heavy metals are thought Lawrence Crowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12090839464038445335noreply@blogger.com