tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post7553113027561360243..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: What is all the thinking good for?Sabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-91826440353067774292011-12-01T18:50:28.048-05:002011-12-01T18:50:28.048-05:00OK, it is now something to be aware of and to find...OK, it is now something to be aware of and to find out, of fundamental/ non- applied fields of science which are getting neglected.Arunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03451666670728177970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-2009639297175753472011-12-01T03:20:20.603-05:002011-12-01T03:20:20.603-05:00That EM and QM are esoteric is beside the point. T...That EM and QM are esoteric is beside the point. Those theories are practically useful because they are relevant at terrestial energy scales. Modern HEP and QG describe phenomena at the multi-GeV scale and above. That is relevant in supernovas or the Big Bang, but not for commercial applications on or close to earth. How could one make a gadget using QG effects, if we cannot even produce such Thomas Larssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15985129937633673870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-46672491503457374942011-11-30T18:58:31.224-05:002011-11-30T18:58:31.224-05:00Esoteric multi-precision physics is valuable becau...Esoteric multi-precision physics is valuable because an engineer needs to know 2 basic things: (1) what are the ways in which nature works and (2) what are the ways in which nature does not work. HEP can indicate what not to attempt.David Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10537922851243581921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-17430302359327464282011-11-30T11:53:08.396-05:002011-11-30T11:53:08.396-05:00How about because we don't like being wrong. T...How about because we don't like being wrong. Thousands of years of making mistakes and paying the consequences proves the worth of doing the sort of experiments and observation to get a better clue.joel ricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06048310899055838262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-533004844238178212011-11-30T11:46:49.009-05:002011-11-30T11:46:49.009-05:008 of 8
NanomandalaPhoto Credit: University of Ca...8 of 8 <br /><a href="http://www.pbs.org/newshour/indepth_coverage/science/nanotechnology/slideshow/index.php?page=8#slides" rel="nofollow">Nanomandala</a><b>Photo Credit</b>: University of California at Los Angeles<br /><br /><i>The purposeful arrangement of individual atoms bears some resemblance to the methods monks use to laboriously create sand images particle by particle, however, Eastern PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-35136740616252583982011-11-30T11:24:33.278-05:002011-11-30T11:24:33.278-05:00For the tribe.
Where Do We Come From? What Are We...For the tribe.<br /><br /><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cldxKGOzgeM/Sub619kVXmI/AAAAAAAACWE/2VNePFxnvuE/s1600/Sister+Wendy%27s.jpg" rel="nofollow">Where Do We Come From? What Are We? Where Are We Going?</a><br /><br /><br /><i>"On the right (Where do we come from?), we see the baby, and three young women - those who are closest to that eternal mystery. In the center, Gauguin meditates PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-25209631136129607062011-11-30T11:11:13.247-05:002011-11-30T11:11:13.247-05:00Bee:“What are we made of?,” “Where do we come from...<b>Bee</b>:<i>“What are we made of?,” “Where do we come from?,” and “What are the laws of Nature that we conform to?”</i><br /><br />What came to mind was housed in the questions and basis of a painting?<br /><br /> Paul Gauguin,<br /><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cldxKGOzgeM/Sub619kVXmI/AAAAAAAACWE/2VNePFxnvuE/s320/Sister+Wendy%27s.jpg" rel="nofollow">Where Do We Come From? What Are We? PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-43827695416719606212011-11-30T10:19:09.304-05:002011-11-30T10:19:09.304-05:00Bee said:
>You said that very well. But now
&g...Bee said:<br />>You said that very well. But now<br /> >tell me, what replies do you get?<br /><br />A thousand-yard stare -- that is if the other party is polite enough to stay through the whole spiel... :PJochenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07418841955052661428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-54566510531189554752011-11-30T09:51:40.546-05:002011-11-30T09:51:40.546-05:00Hi Bee,
well done especially I noticed that witho...Hi Bee,<br /><br />well done especially I noticed that without science there's no technology. That's what most people forget, when asking for what reason the LHC is f.e. build up, besides making fundamental physics. I think to have people who are able to build up such a machine is great, since the knowledgment as you told Thomas Larsson can yield to fantastic new options.<br /><br />Best Kay zum Feldehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04233793196547147876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-90769824448538179832011-11-30T06:18:48.726-05:002011-11-30T06:18:48.726-05:00Superluminal travel? :o) I don't know, I don&#...Superluminal travel? :o) I don't know, I don't think I have a good grasp on what's going on outside physics. Multi-scale phenomena maybe. Also, I think there's not enough attention paid to how little we know about the process of knowledge discovery itself. I'm not sure though that counts as fundamental research.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-32522637388733350652011-11-30T06:13:06.017-05:002011-11-30T06:13:06.017-05:00What are the most undervalued areas of fundamental...What are the most undervalued areas of fundamental research? I know the answer will be subjective and incomplete.Arunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03451666670728177970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-12036024409059370282011-11-30T05:58:36.665-05:002011-11-30T05:58:36.665-05:00Of course, I'm in favour of research for the s...Of course, I'm in favour of research for the sake of research and also in favour of this being paid for out of tax money. Although it is not my justification, one can always point out spin-offs from pure research (not to mention applied) which are used by almost everyone today. Quantum mechanics, which was really esoteric just a few decades ago? Semiconductor technology depends on it, and Phillip Helbighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067585245603436809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-80665364876917690832011-11-30T04:30:21.361-05:002011-11-30T04:30:21.361-05:00Hi Bee,
I have similar concerns which I expressed...Hi Bee,<br /><br />I have similar concerns which I expressed in the second part of my argument and yet this also I would connect to those not understanding the potential of science in it having a demonstrated utility extending beyond considerations of a strictly material nature.<br /><br /><i><b>“Our species needs, and deserves, a citizenry with minds wide awake and a basic understanding of how Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-4004361263868525792011-11-30T04:27:33.959-05:002011-11-30T04:27:33.959-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-21354607306654694852011-11-30T03:16:54.069-05:002011-11-30T03:16:54.069-05:00Hi Phil,
I very much would like to believe what y...Hi Phil,<br /><br />I very much would like to believe what you say, yet on my more pessimistic days I am far from sure that benefits of knowledge always surface and serve humanity. Best,<br /><br />B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-41320892714552257322011-11-30T03:12:41.372-05:002011-11-30T03:12:41.372-05:00See, the above spam comment is exactly what I mean...See, the above spam comment is exactly what I mean. Nano and neuro have become marketing syllables.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-13638860745919376712011-11-30T02:03:13.455-05:002011-11-30T02:03:13.455-05:00Hi Bee,
I think it would be fair to say that phys...Hi Bee,<br /><br />I think it would be fair to say that physicists, particularly theoretical ones, to be poor judges of the practical application of their discoveries and it is equality true that the exploiters and those who benefit from same are poor at knowing what aspects of science present the greatest opportunity. That is the only thing which can be assured, as to have been consistently Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-75201608667381371812011-11-30T01:26:52.847-05:002011-11-30T01:26:52.847-05:00Hi Arun,
It is my impression that presently funda...Hi Arun,<br /><br />It is my impression that presently fundamental research on matters with only remote applicability are undervalued. The problem as I see it is that we tend to over-invest into areas that are already well funded with the result that we create bubbles in which a core of really great research is surrounded by a lot of fluff that just has the presently all-important keyword Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-15723262544374783642011-11-30T01:18:47.836-05:002011-11-30T01:18:47.836-05:00Hi Snowboarder,
Yes, fundamental research is an i...Hi Snowboarder,<br /><br />Yes, fundamental research is an investment of our societies, one that only fairly advanced societies can afford, and it's not at all clear how much of an investment is useful and appropriate at any given time. Of course I can give you a long speech why the LHC is incredibly important and why we really really needed to reach the some TeV scale, but there is always Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-44831246041197354482011-11-30T01:13:04.191-05:002011-11-30T01:13:04.191-05:00Hi Jochen,
You said that very well. But now tell ...Hi Jochen,<br /><br />You said that very well. But now tell me, what replies do you get? Best,<br /><br />B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-15011329980461999572011-11-30T01:12:22.760-05:002011-11-30T01:12:22.760-05:00Hi Giotis,
I think what you say is probably true,...Hi Giotis,<br /><br />I think what you say is probably true, but it is also difficult to prove. Best,<br /><br />B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-29993450815201787222011-11-30T00:21:25.327-05:002011-11-30T00:21:25.327-05:00Exactly, the question boils down to how much can w...Exactly, the question boils down to how much can we afford (or how much will stinginess hurt us) to engage in this exploration?Arunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03451666670728177970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-21051473920315741912011-11-30T00:21:00.093-05:002011-11-30T00:21:00.093-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Arunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03451666670728177970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-4602190175956827012011-11-29T16:07:30.705-05:002011-11-29T16:07:30.705-05:00Bee - I think the issue is two fold. One, the cos...Bee - I think the issue is two fold. One, the cost of much of today's research (ie LHC) is enormous. Can we afford it? Are there better ways to pay for it? and..two, what is the rush? There has been many a tear shed over the possible cancellation of the hubble replacement due to the cost overruns. While it may be a <i>personal</i> tragedy to the community building it and perhaps using it Anonymous Snowboarderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13705929076819672791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-31873254092162246902011-11-29T13:38:52.731-05:002011-11-29T13:38:52.731-05:00When asked this question, I usually point out that...When asked this question, I usually point out that actually, most things we do, we don't do because of their utility (and it'd be a sad state of affairs if we did). You don't climb a mountain because it'll help you find a new energy source, you don't make love to bring a new human being into the world to raise the GDP. Even the things that have uses, we generally don't Jochenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07418841955052661428noreply@blogger.com