tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post74687897916356733..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: A drop makes waves – just like quantum mechanics?Sabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-49692543968541381582015-03-09T14:05:09.749-04:002015-03-09T14:05:09.749-04:00The followup paper mentioned by Mitchell in the fi...The followup paper mentioned by Mitchell in the first comment above is http://arxiv.org/abs/1502.05926. The claim is that you can reproduce the quantum correlations in a CHSH model by purely classical means - in this case orientations with respect to phase vortices. To do this, it appears that you need some long-range order in the medium. This looks like cheating to me, you set things up Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18276581284031181874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-89847706953403848462014-02-27T14:52:00.131-05:002014-02-27T14:52:00.131-05:00Coude's model is a true representation of quan...Coude's model is a true representation of quantum gravity!Stuart https://www.blogger.com/profile/12767480095489975264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-32102093327659188242014-02-25T14:49:50.754-05:002014-02-25T14:49:50.754-05:00Whether or not there are multiple worlds, there is...Whether or not there are multiple worlds, there is some utility to the notion that we each inhabit our own particular Universe, one with its own lights and shadows, its own degree of nearsightedness, its own strategies for getting from here to there, its own unknown quantities and perhaps excesses of the prose. <br /><br />Here science is the commons with its faith in a one, true, normative Don Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04814669413022486958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-22136366455456343792014-02-23T23:54:04.567-05:002014-02-23T23:54:04.567-05:00“What ever the case may be in quantum mechanics, t...“What ever the case may be in quantum mechanics, the statistics are an incomplete description of our fluid system and emerge from an underlying pilot-wave dynamics.”<br /> (From the video “Pilot-wave dynamics of walking drops,” John Bush, MIT)<br /><br />So, is this a polite intimation that the statistical description of quantum mechanics may also be incomplete?<br />Don Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04814669413022486958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-88713180397114518582014-02-23T16:26:04.450-05:002014-02-23T16:26:04.450-05:00FYI a team at MIT led by John Bush has been doing ...FYI a team at MIT led by John Bush has been doing the math alongside Couder's experiments for at least three years, and a major recap is coming out next month. <br />See the work here http://math.mit.edu/~bush/?page_id=484<br />lhcghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05211423671158591114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-62961455384474023102014-02-21T11:48:43.205-05:002014-02-21T11:48:43.205-05:00Statistical probability always must become a recur...Statistical probability always must become a recurring theme, just like the crown(very visual):)PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-23562788150286691362014-02-21T10:41:04.317-05:002014-02-21T10:41:04.317-05:00@ Neil
“…what then is "behind" the quant...@ Neil<br />“…what then is "behind" the quantum mechanics itself?”<br /><br />I wonder if your question should be real rather than simply rhetorical. <br /><br />It is not so much whether Couder’s droplets are exact analogues of quantum mechanical entities, but rather whether there may be underlying principles that manifest kindred dynamics at such vastly different scales. Perhaps an Don Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04814669413022486958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-23409151760101105292014-02-21T04:08:49.397-05:002014-02-21T04:08:49.397-05:00"Note also the irony that this involves simul...<i>"Note also the irony that this involves simulating "quantum mechanics" - including things like electrons moving in empty space - by actual substances made of: quantum mechanical particles!"</i><br /><br />A similar problem in GR:<br /><br />https://xkcd.com/895/<br /><br />Phillip Helbighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067585245603436809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-31322304870054902062014-02-21T02:58:26.271-05:002014-02-21T02:58:26.271-05:00
If you leave separability and locality behind,
Th...<br />If you leave separability and locality behind,<br />Theory of everything= MonismAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06774330406587467567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-90061848371573905472014-02-20T19:45:30.417-05:002014-02-20T19:45:30.417-05:00Neil,
GR tells QM how to be determinstic ::
QM tel...Neil,<br />GR tells QM how to be determinstic ::<br />QM tells GR how to be uncertain<br /><br />If the "real " QM is the final initial ground or foundation as everywhere indeterminant whatever the coherence over a region imagined to be different if a sequence or experiment is set up to be repeated, how would any structure or phenomena arise or exist so too make any other model possibleL. Edgar Ottohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00525169618204198073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-22525631458755314262014-02-20T17:07:50.488-05:002014-02-20T17:07:50.488-05:00Note also the irony that this involves simulating ...Note also the irony that this involves simulating "quantum mechanics" - including things like electrons moving in empty space - by actual substances made of: quantum mechanical particles! So the properties of the real medium can be used to "explain" what the droplets do, but what then is "behind" the quantum mechanics itself? It doesn't have some background etherNeil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-13383575356038803742014-02-20T16:28:10.672-05:002014-02-20T16:28:10.672-05:00Another problem with particle+wave style realism, ...Another problem with particle+wave style realism, is light. We can imagine electrons being both in some sense, but how credible is a reified nugget photon bouncing around? Most quantum states *don't even have a definite number of photons*, there is uncertainty Δn! I don't see how Bohmians get around that. And furthermore, nugget electrons and especially photons would scatter differently Neil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-21349360872726705342014-02-20T15:48:27.260-05:002014-02-20T15:48:27.260-05:00Sorry that URL came out wrong even though it was c...Sorry that URL came out wrong even though it was correct inside the HTML quote marks. It is at www.fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/949.<br /><br />Sheesh, Captch was "The sucNone."Neil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-1456614886989696362014-02-20T15:45:11.630-05:002014-02-20T15:45:11.630-05:00Fascinating but yeah, no way to get strong long-ra...Fascinating but yeah, no way to get strong long-range correlations and we know that local realism fails and you need FTL connections. And this may help explain particle motion but not varying lifetimes of structureless (?) muons etc. Also, I think the particle/wave duality is not meant to imply both aspects are present "in flight" but rather, the particle aspect is concerned with the Neil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-82281448401996158152014-02-20T10:07:00.190-05:002014-02-20T10:07:00.190-05:00Here is a table top experiment. (I enjoyed demonst...Here is a table top experiment. (I enjoyed demonstrations for my 8th grade general science class making A 's yet everyone else D's except my assistant which got B 's 1959)<br />Slow motion photos showed a water drop on water and smaller ones bouncing back upward. Take a melted drop of crayon and let it fall toward an inclined plane to freeze.<br /><br />This tastes of GR if we L. Edgar Ottohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00525169618204198073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-71330169456856101412014-02-19T23:48:05.090-05:002014-02-19T23:48:05.090-05:00"In any physics experiment you only see what ..."In any physics experiment you only see what you are prepared to see" -- Yves Couder<br /><br />That is an experimental result to keep in mind.<br /><br />There is much interesting comment here, but apparently little real amazement at either Couder’s experiments or the Brady/Anderson paper.<br /><br />Having a tabletop mechanism mimic even a portion of quantum dynamics at a many orders Don Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04814669413022486958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-16861962802420499102014-02-19T23:27:08.323-05:002014-02-19T23:27:08.323-05:00I think stellar scale systems show us visually and...<br />I think stellar scale systems show us visually and at relatively high resolution what atomic scale systems look like, how they move, and how they interact.<br /><br />No one currently believes me, but I think their children will, or perhaps their children's children.Robert L. Oldershawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15396555790655312393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-39266405941571797272014-02-19T23:05:18.108-05:002014-02-19T23:05:18.108-05:00Robert,
I would certainly argue that so although a...Robert,<br />I would certainly argue that so although as a working paradox. I have only questioned such intuitions informally and intuitively. Your formal idea I never felt radical using a sort of<br /> Mathematical induction. In reverse.<br /><br />Given two such depth complexity structures as different is there something of structures or spaces between them?<br /><br />Can they be independent L. Edgar Ottohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00525169618204198073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-65064194730178400092014-02-19T21:02:59.387-05:002014-02-19T21:02:59.387-05:00It is possible that the unbound free electron (vir...It is possible that the unbound free electron (virtually singular) and the fully bound atomic electron (decomposed into countless virtually infinitesimal charged particles whose spatial distribution is that of Psi-squared) have radically different structures.<br /><br />Would anyone believe such a radical idea? Not yet!Robert L. Oldershawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15396555790655312393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-1728287321606483502014-02-19T14:07:37.491-05:002014-02-19T14:07:37.491-05:00Doesn't this exeperiment taste a little like G...Doesn't this exeperiment taste a little like GR too? Frame dragging of spinning black holes?<br /><br />From some coordinate that we find ourselves in a place we extend say a time or cause like sequence into higher dimensional view would it matter if we cannot sense accelerations of accelerations?<br /><br />The possible confusion here is that in a physical space initial or terminal L. Edgar Ottohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00525169618204198073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-5250083703232629512014-02-19T13:40:11.155-05:002014-02-19T13:40:11.155-05:00"Thanks, I fixed that." Chemistry drips..."<i>Thanks, I fixed that.</i>" Chemistry drips unfortunate nomenclature. H3C-CCl2-CH3 hydrolyzes to H3C-C(OH)2-CH3 that spontaneously dehydrates to H3C-C(=O)-CH3, which is propanone (acetone, a ketone). Use dimethyldichlorosilane to make the silanone, C=O versus Si=O. Alas, Si=O does not exist (bonding pi-orbitals do not sufficiently overlap).<br /><br />H3C-SiCl2-CH3 hydrolyzes to Uncle Alhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056804084187606211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-24407523128639660112014-02-19T13:07:42.166-05:002014-02-19T13:07:42.166-05:00" ... the idea that quantum mechanics may be ..." ... the idea that quantum mechanics may be explainable by classical particles and waves is back en vogue."<br /><br />Were that Joy Christian's critics got that memo.<br /><br />"If the particle is given an initial velocity, it will maintain this velocity and drag the wave field with it."<br /><br />You bet. Just as Christian's framework shows, in accord with t h rayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00150085167540063914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-69724843309511816282014-02-19T12:46:23.001-05:002014-02-19T12:46:23.001-05:00Very nice.
Exciting to find a little tabletop phe...Very nice.<br /><br />Exciting to find a little tabletop phenomenon with such rich analogue behavior and perhaps deep implications. The paper seems a wonderful example of the application of the basic methodologies of physics.<br /><br />Hard for me to sort it out, but do you foresee any possibility that something here might alter the “long-chain”, determinative purview of the fundamental Don Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04814669413022486958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-90728507848236176122014-02-19T12:33:10.257-05:002014-02-19T12:33:10.257-05:00Zephir: it points the way. Think TQFT, and note th...Zephir: it points the way. Think TQFT, and note that the dark line in figure 2 is the same as figure 1 in http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0512265Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-37665935722120286912014-02-19T09:11:51.082-05:002014-02-19T09:11:51.082-05:00John, the underlying foundational physics is not m...John, the underlying foundational physics is not made if such vortices. Nor of a distinct dead zone in the eye of a hurricaine regardless of how we are to understand chirality in such whatever solitons, spinors, scalors, geons, virtual or real monopoles E=B or not. Same species, different claims and names. Not that it is not physics and a deep elaborate useful one. But it is the foundational L. Edgar Ottohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00525169618204198073noreply@blogger.com