tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post7467266921259021995..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: CERN produces marketing video for new collider and it’s full of liesSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger229125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-75546387224601636152019-01-16T06:10:02.275-05:002019-01-16T06:10:02.275-05:00There is now an article in the online version of t...There is now an <a href="http://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/technik/cern-physiker-planen-gigantischen-neuen-teilchenbeschleuniger-a-1248250.html" rel="nofollow"><b>article in the online version of the German news weekly <i>Der Spiegel</i></b></a>.Phillip Helbighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067585245603436809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-68151917014285510002019-01-08T11:30:52.496-05:002019-01-08T11:30:52.496-05:00Roberto;
One cannot credibly explain away mislead...Roberto;<br /><br />One cannot credibly explain away misleading claims by saying that the message was intended for someone else. I am a member of the <i>general public</i> but I saw nothing in that video or the rest of the press releases that told me I should not read or watch. The funding for the new device would come from the <i>general public</i>; so it is a matter of legitimate general sean s.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04190153587965701495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-42869555284566582442019-01-08T10:01:29.150-05:002019-01-08T10:01:29.150-05:00@David Bailey
"If CERN can't ensure that...@David Bailey<br /><br />"If CERN can't ensure that what it puts out as press releases is factually accurate"<br /><br /> It --> IS <-- factually accurate! There is nothing that needs to be corrected.<br /> Surely not for the general public, i.e. the target audience of the video.<br /> None of the words written in the 77" video are wrong, or misleading... I've roberto kersevanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08293551219458418162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-6779403520026660272018-12-31T07:07:07.370-05:002018-12-31T07:07:07.370-05:00Roberto said,
"Sabone: scientists didn't...Roberto said,<br /><br />"Sabone: scientists didn't choose anything. Videos like this are left to the press department. I told you this, Frédéric told you this, probably someone else told you this."<br /><br />If CERN can't ensure that what it puts out as press releases is factually accurate, then perhaps it should now withdraw the video, apologise, and put out a strictly David Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06172248428321078417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-70142002453478767322018-12-30T07:14:04.875-05:002018-12-30T07:14:04.875-05:00@Mitchell, Thanks for mentioning the Resonaance...@Mitchell, Thanks for mentioning the Resonaance's blog regarding the G-2 anomalies. I used to frequent that site, but lately had forgotten its name.<br /><br />Scrolling further down another interesting post "Can MiniBooNE be right?" caught my attention, as I've had a longstanding interest in the neutrino sector. Towards the end of that post the author points to the puzzling David Schroederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048116250413347228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-85697920141723524132018-12-29T19:17:20.567-05:002018-12-29T19:17:20.567-05:00Well this is a surprising blog-post by a rethoreti...Well this is a surprising blog-post by a rethoretical physicist.<br /><br />I am guessing the blogger is seeking attention similar to what Trump and Lubos does, or has become deluded.<br /><br />Blogger claims LHC and Tevatron has made no-discoveries ”fcc would continue trend of nondiscoveries” which is clearly untrue.<br /><br />A few billions is quite a small sum for a huge science project thatAlexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13559320018619087006noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-69069601991713440552018-12-29T06:21:35.824-05:002018-12-29T06:21:35.824-05:00Anna,
The video was not made for young physicists...Anna,<br /><br />The video was not made for young physicists. I know this because I spoke with the guy who produced it. <br /><br />It's only 1 minute long, why don't you just watch it.<br /><br />As I keep saying in my lectures, negative results are also results, sure. But if you want to develop a new theory these are not very useful results. What you really need to move on is evidence Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-63702022151203267642018-12-29T05:33:26.120-05:002018-12-29T05:33:26.120-05:00Anna Vayaki
Sabine Hossenfelder said:
"How ...Anna Vayaki<br /><br />Sabine Hossenfelder said:<br /><br />"How about you put that into a marketing video,instead of bs"<br /><br />1) I am not involved in the process of informing the public<br /><br />2) I have not seen the video, but from your description it sounded as an effort to get young physicist to commit to 10 or 20 years of effort to build the next experiments, not for the ανναhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00049658656109460337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-11400906840097710052018-12-29T03:40:59.480-05:002018-12-29T03:40:59.480-05:00Clara,
As I already said above, I did read the re...Clara,<br /><br />As I already said above, I did read the relevant parts of this report, the link of which I received some weeks ago. Of course this report supports what I say. I am only pointing out what everyone in the field knows anyway. Except that some do not want the public to know about it - witness this comment section. <br />Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-5369049100952513332018-12-29T03:23:40.162-05:002018-12-29T03:23:40.162-05:00Sabine,
the mentioned yellow report https://cds.c...Sabine,<br /><br />the mentioned yellow report https://cds.cern.ch/record/2270978 of CERN in fact PROVES your point that there is no good reason to expect anything new up to the Planck scale.<br /><br />Please review it - it is astonishingly easy. Of the 716 pages, BSM (beyond the standard model) takes only 150 pages. (That already makes you think...) Of these 150, half is about supersymmetry, Clara, once known as Nemohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15931393389874902234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-78480085729338248982018-12-29T03:01:43.348-05:002018-12-29T03:01:43.348-05:00Anna,
How about you put that into a marketing vid...Anna,<br /><br />How about you put that into a marketing video, then, instead of bullshit. <br />Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-68262701584923287182018-12-29T02:52:06.309-05:002018-12-29T02:52:06.309-05:00Anna Vayaki
Sabine Hossenfelder said:
"I am...Anna Vayaki<br /><br />Sabine Hossenfelder said:<br /><br />"I am not opposed to building a larger collider. Particle colliders that reach higher energies than we probed before are the cleanest and most reliable way to search for new physics. But I am strongly opposed to misleading the public about the prospects of such costly experiments. We presently have no reliable prediction for new ανναhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00049658656109460337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-59119309928271058672018-12-28T19:07:28.016-05:002018-12-28T19:07:28.016-05:00Considering that the cost of our involvement in ov...Considering that the cost of our involvement in overseas conflicts is measured in the trillions of dollars (President Trump's estimate 6 trillion), the building of a new accelerator like the FCC seems like a bargain basement project in comparison. Haven't been able to find any estimate on the FCC's construction/running costs, but the LHC cost about 4 billion Euro's, and requires David Schroederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048116250413347228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-88872735297753302782018-12-27T03:14:25.680-05:002018-12-27T03:14:25.680-05:00"But rather than clarifying what was going on...<i>"But rather than clarifying what was going on, particle physicists simply go and try the same thing again to get money for the next larger collider."</i><br /><br />I agree that bogus predictions should not be used to get money to build a bigger collider or whatever.<br /><br />But that doesn't mean that a bigger collider shouldn't be built.<br /><br />Discovering nothing newPhillip Helbighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067585245603436809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-38378656809475426032018-12-27T01:31:02.448-05:002018-12-27T01:31:02.448-05:00Frederic,
Well, we seem to agree for what the sci...Frederic,<br /><br />Well, we seem to agree for what the science is concerned. Now please note the following. <br /><br />Particle physicists have been going around for 20 years and told the public that the LHC would find susy and dark matter or maybe extra dimension and so on. You and I and everyone in the field knows that those were not good predictions. But the public cannot judge the value ofSabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-33092423732521436272018-12-26T19:26:57.116-05:002018-12-26T19:26:57.116-05:00Sabine,
If you sincerely believe that CERN scienti...Sabine,<br />If you sincerely believe that CERN scientists working on FCC studies are "morally corrupt", then I don't know what to say, perhaps I'd be spending my time more productively arguing with Trump supporters in the comments of a Fox news opinion piece and trying to convince them they should have voted for Clinton.<br /><br />I tend to agree that there is no particular Frederic Dreyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11829777910386819791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-7491666066360940702018-12-26T17:38:32.250-05:002018-12-26T17:38:32.250-05:00Frederic wrote: If you feel so strongly that a 100...Frederic wrote: If you feel so strongly that a 100 TeV is a waste of time and money . . .<br /><br />Again Sabine has already responded, and again I'll add my two cents. As a layperson trying to follow this discussion, I get doggone tired of people who frequently misconstrue and misrepresent what Sabine has said. I don't expect this kind of sloppy recklessness in laypeople, let alone Steven Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140374687362624448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-61140732951706174422018-12-26T17:22:02.807-05:002018-12-26T17:22:02.807-05:00Frederic wrote: 6% of the duration of this very sh...Frederic wrote: 6% of the duration of this very short video, so it is hardly "full of" lies <br /><br />Sabine has already responded to this point, but I'll add my two cents. <br /><br />I would normally be sympathetic to the argument that "full of" lies is too strong. I might even be sympathetic to the argument that "lies" is too strong a word. As I said in my Steven Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140374687362624448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-54945321517047305872018-12-26T16:15:08.452-05:002018-12-26T16:15:08.452-05:00Roberto wrote: Done it Steven
No you haven't....Roberto wrote: Done it Steven<br /><br />No you haven't. You said I'm getting an award for saying something stupid, but you didn't explain what was stupid about what I said. If you've already explained it, quote the part where you did it. <br /><br />Roberto wrote: Dr. Sabine which was objecting to me replying to you as such... do you have a problem following the discussion?<brSteven Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140374687362624448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-41527798768742817632018-12-26T13:22:39.874-05:002018-12-26T13:22:39.874-05:00"Laypeople aren't remotely as dumb as you..."Laypeople aren't remotely as dumb as you claim they are."<br /><br /> I never claimed or wrote that laypeople are dumb!... Can you refrain ONCE from lying?<br /> Laypeople are, demonstrably, not versed at all in grappling scientific concepts, especially in fields which are far off from everyday's life.<br /> Were it not nb like that they would simply not fit the adjective &roberto kersevanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08293551219458418162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-41255100249956609442018-12-26T12:24:37.963-05:002018-12-26T12:24:37.963-05:00Frederic,
"My point is that by attacking the...Frederic,<br /><br /><i>"My point is that by attacking the video you are essentially fighting a straw man because we both know that not a single senior author on that report I linked to has spent more than 5 minutes thinking about this video. Yet you are discrediting them as well and essentially calling them liars too."</i><br /><br />A scientific community that accepts their work is Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-86447265023091098372018-12-26T11:24:13.142-05:002018-12-26T11:24:13.142-05:00@Sabine
My point is that by attacking the video yo...@Sabine<br />My point is that by attacking the video you are essentially fighting a straw man because we both know that not a single senior author on that report I linked to has spent more than 5 minutes thinking about this video. Yet you are discrediting them as well and essentially calling them liars too. If you feel so strongly that a 100 TeV is a waste of time and money, then it would be moreFrederic Dreyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11829777910386819791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-72146873306145501532018-12-26T08:32:14.196-05:002018-12-26T08:32:14.196-05:00Roberto,
I looked at all the references you poste...Roberto,<br /><br />I looked at all the references you posted. They do not contain mathematically sound reasons for why the FCC should find any of the new particles. If you think they do, you must have misread them. I already told you that weeks ago. Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-26425164023759786002018-12-26T08:24:24.184-05:002018-12-26T08:24:24.184-05:00@sabine hossenfelder, PhD
"We are still wa...@sabine hossenfelder, PhD<br /><br /> "We are still waiting for your "mathematical, logically solid, background" (your exact words)"<br /><br /> My exact words backed by my exact bibliographical references, see message of <br /> 9:09 AM, December 19, 2018 .. plus other following.<br /> You have dismissed the links to the short versions of the CDRs for the 3 different roberto kersevanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08293551219458418162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-32619739334787309572018-12-26T08:19:58.998-05:002018-12-26T08:19:58.998-05:00Roberto,
I have explained very clearly why the st...Roberto,<br /><br />I have explained very clearly why the statements in the video are grossly misleading. Every particle physicists who knows their subject will understand that what I have written is correct. A technical report would never make such ridiculous claims. In fact the report in question does not contain any such claims. I did of course not read all 900 pages, but I read the relevant Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.com