tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post500488626467102286..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: The Mathematics of ConsciousnessSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger62125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-15586743966626460312021-07-26T10:00:06.566-04:002021-07-26T10:00:06.566-04:00Hi Eric
I guess my question would be why you can’...Hi Eric<br /><br />I guess my question would be why you can’t have causality when using a metaphysical framework that’s neoplatonic, thomistic, idealist etc?<br /><br />I’ve personally have gone from a physicalist to theistic perspective, and in trying to understand why I was so confident about my physicalist worldview, I’ve realised that it’s an assumption often ‘secretly’ added to the science. Simon Adamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08967831833822936845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-30563552761215475882021-07-26T08:36:18.259-04:002021-07-26T08:36:18.259-04:00Simon,
I wasn’t addressing QM specifically, thoug...Simon, <br />I wasn’t addressing QM specifically, though we can take my metaphysical principle there if you like. First make sure that my meaning is clear to you. How might one figure anything out in a void of causal dynamics? It seems to me that causality itself happens to be what we attempt to grasp. If so then removing the causal element should remove exactly what we were trying to figure Philosopher Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11126076811765843302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-22504095265937559192021-07-25T01:47:45.319-04:002021-07-25T01:47:45.319-04:00“ if it’s not then there would be nothing for us t...“ if it’s not then there would be nothing for us to figure out in that sense anyway”<br /><br />Is that true? Most relational quantum interpretations have physical properties only existing as part of an interaction. By assuming the macro world we experience is just the physical properties, and that’s how we interact with it, you’re removing any sustained reality from everything.<br /><br />You Simon Adamshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08967831833822936845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-9833578464100422972021-07-24T17:58:29.750-04:002021-07-24T17:58:29.750-04:00Touché Ryan. Yes we physicalists do the same as w...Touché Ryan. Yes we physicalists do the same as well. This is why I think science needs effective principles of metaphysics (not to mention epistemology and axiology) from which to function. As a potential cure consider my single principle of metaphysics: <br /><br /><i>To the extent that causality fails, nothing exists to understand. </i> <br /><br />Here scientists would not consider the Philosopher Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11126076811765843302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-76775079587748303122021-07-23T12:30:40.754-04:002021-07-23T12:30:40.754-04:00Also, physicalists - We don't have a clue how ...Also, physicalists - We don't have a clue how consciousness works, but consciousness is obviously a purely physical phenomenon because physicalism is just obviously the correct metaphysical worldview, so therefore consciousness must be purely physical.Ryan Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02626548873379732761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-81382069944655685902021-04-18T22:26:12.215-04:002021-04-18T22:26:12.215-04:00Understanding the processes by which neural networ...Understanding the processes by which neural networks function is an interesting problem. All animals have them at some level of complexity or other. but the obsession with consciousness as something special seems very anthropocentric and reminds me of the astronomy of Earth as the center of the universe. Every time we have postulated our special place in the universe, science has eventually showndsmccoyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11051462192058553578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-21518955622279459202021-02-07T13:44:05.080-05:002021-02-07T13:44:05.080-05:00The aim of current scientific research on consciou...The aim of current scientific research on consciousness, including Giulio Tononi's work, is the identification of the neural correlates of consciousness (NCC),which mean the brain structures that are on during the state of consciousness.The phenomenon of consciousness cannot, at the present time, be the direct object of scientific research. There is not any objective test to ascertain Mario Altierihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09210470482212989895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-90009027153595248132021-01-19T08:45:43.003-05:002021-01-19T08:45:43.003-05:00Just to remind:
Neither physics nor math explain (...Just to remind:<br />Neither physics nor math explain (demystify) anything.<br />They describe. Difference. Big difference.<br />To be not precise and confuse these two states we will run in big trouble.<br /><br />To do so physics introduces (theoretical) constructs (and it does it well), like force (or very complicated ones). It's a mighty approach and leads to wonderful results to describeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-3981544955030777992021-01-19T08:41:48.093-05:002021-01-19T08:41:48.093-05:00David S,
Note that McFadden rules out quantum eff...David S,<br /><br />Note that McFadden rules out quantum effects. The integration is electromagnetic not quantum.Jim Crosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12359287601046663774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-2717333322419006682021-01-19T08:33:02.661-05:002021-01-19T08:33:02.661-05:00Nobody is asserting that the brain is completely c...Nobody is asserting that the brain is completely composed of EM fields. <br /><br />McFadden argues that the brain's EM field(s) generated by synchronous firing of neurons spatially organizes information and is the substrate of consciousness. The pattern of the wave, organized in three dimensions, could be quite complex and represent the current integrated state of the brain. It also Jim Crosshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12359287601046663774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-27611090916549036202021-01-18T22:35:19.618-05:002021-01-18T22:35:19.618-05:00Suzanne Bredlau Turgeon6:46 PM, January 12, 2021
...Suzanne Bredlau Turgeon6:46 PM, January 12, 2021<br /><br />This is just an appeal to authority fallacy. Planck did not formally publish or provide evidence for these comments. They are off the record.<br />As far as we know, the mind is emergent from the brain. Neuroscience cannot currently completely explain conscious experience in terms of the structures of the brain, but that doesn't meanSteven Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13898046706669437332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-74410564318553370722021-01-18T10:43:18.555-05:002021-01-18T10:43:18.555-05:00What Planck said rings just as true today as it di...What Planck said rings just as true today as it did then. jim_hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10618326446656475641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-29623841422608648542021-01-16T20:44:00.091-05:002021-01-16T20:44:00.091-05:00In my comment at 11:33 AM, January 16, 2021 the 25...In my comment at 11:33 AM, January 16, 2021 the 25 nanometer “size” I stated for microtubules was actually their diameter. Reading the paper “Consciousness in the universe: A review of the ‘Orch OR’ theory” in “Physics of Life Reviews”, March, 2014, by Penrose and Hameroff, they state that the length of microtubules can range from several hundred nanometers to “apparently up to meters in long David Schroederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048116250413347228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-85809768848259491782021-01-16T11:33:58.045-05:002021-01-16T11:33:58.045-05:00I was long a fan of consciousness being influenced...I was long a fan of consciousness being influenced by quantum effects, from the time I first encountered this notion reading Danah Zohar’s book “Through the Time Barrier, A Study in Precognition and Modern Physics”. But the prospects for such a brain-quantum interface appear rather dismal with such a phenomena requiring a billion times longer states of coherence than Max Tegmark estimates David Schroederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048116250413347228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-82797652016935602812021-01-16T03:08:27.555-05:002021-01-16T03:08:27.555-05:00Lawrence Crowell7:20 AM, January 14, 2021
"W...Lawrence Crowell7:20 AM, January 14, 2021<br /><br />"Without some empirical finding ... beating a dead horse"<br /><br />Lawrence, my boy, you are finally learning. Now just apply the same reasoning to effort unduly expended on other equine fatalities - inflation, MWI and String Theory.<br /><br />I'll make a physicist of you yet ;)Steven Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13898046706669437332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-71870702911383298512021-01-16T01:28:02.664-05:002021-01-16T01:28:02.664-05:00The state of consciousness of someone contains in ...The state of consciousness of someone contains in it the identity of the person. So, it seems to me that one can simply identify consciousness with algorithms. Your brain is right now running a certain algorithm and that contains all the information about what you are experiencing, including the fact that it is you and not someone else.<br /><br />So, what exists are states of consciousness whichSaibal Mitrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13597381129394090350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-78267123378645724972021-01-15T08:40:18.327-05:002021-01-15T08:40:18.327-05:00For me, the quantum consciousness conjecture from ...For me, the quantum consciousness conjecture from Penrose is not convincing. But the thoughts from Erwin Schrödinger in "Mein Leben, meine Weltansicht" have some appeal. The difference is that Schrödinger doesn't try to explain human consciousness. Instead, he links quantum jumps to the evolution of the world at "interfaces" (interface like the surface between two Jakitohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08235089048981338795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-12197033925446170752021-01-14T15:10:24.483-05:002021-01-14T15:10:24.483-05:00I tried to formulate the main (IMHO) problem as t...I tried to formulate the main (IMHO) problem as the Theorem on the nonlocality of other's consciousness.<br />General arguments in favor of the nonlocality of consciousness of the 'other' Based on the arguments of Descartes: 'I think, therefore I exist' - one can unambiguously assert about the temporary localization of consciousness 'from the first person'. That is, &Igor Djadanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16336946125343616803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-22072464902846524132021-01-14T07:20:48.711-05:002021-01-14T07:20:48.711-05:00Without some empirical finding that breathes life ...Without some empirical finding that breathes life in the quantum consciousness conjecture I think it is a dead horse at this time. Smart is the person who does not waste time beating a dead horse.Lawrence Crowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12090839464038445335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-52387703797853739022021-01-14T05:51:03.307-05:002021-01-14T05:51:03.307-05:00I am a bit disappointed at these attempts to grasp...I am a bit disappointed at these attempts to grasp the nature of consciousness. The idea that one number could capture the concept seems unlikely when we consider that relatively limited neural networks code, say, the state of a chess or go game as a 1000 dimensional vector. Why invoke QM to generate noise in brain systems when ordinary thermal noise is ubiquitous? I'm putting my money on CapitalistImperialistPighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17919587059726337357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-60740703450382681382021-01-13T02:52:22.988-05:002021-01-13T02:52:22.988-05:00Yes, You first need to have the information proces...Yes, You first need to have the information processing architecture described before you can make a mathematical model where you can define what it means to experience various qualia, e.g. the color red.<br /><br />I think the Attention Schema Theory lays some foundation for the information processing architecture part, at least for robotics developers that need a bit of self awareness, like selfSvintohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09149996731265510220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-79680864426732818432021-01-13T02:26:40.493-05:002021-01-13T02:26:40.493-05:00Greetings David S!
The idea that consciousness ...Greetings David S! <br /><br />The idea that consciousness exists by means of the electromagnetic radiation associated with certain sets of synchronous neuron firing, has rocked my world since a blogging friend did a post on this 13 months ago. You can find his site under “Broad Speculations”, though often we hang out at “SelfAwarePatterns”. (Then my own lame WordPress site is called “PhysicalPhilosopher Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11126076811765843302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-45918872244149126662021-01-12T21:53:59.148-05:002021-01-12T21:53:59.148-05:00How does my laptop feel as I press on its keyboard...How does my laptop feel as I press on its keyboard and it forms symbols on my screen and sends codes for them to the Internet? <br /><br />Answer: on its most basic level, to feel is to experience something via whatever senses are available to detect that experience. I can't know what what my laptop feels because I don't have those same senses. But I know it feels something, because JimVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10198704789965278981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-55374099814623222622021-01-12T18:46:23.891-05:002021-01-12T18:46:23.891-05:00The great physicist Max Planck (contemporary and m...The great physicist Max Planck (contemporary and mentor of Einstein) said, "I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness." This means that consciousness--as Consciousness--existed and exists before all things and Suzanne Bredlau Turgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10111238853260254467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-66025535064250108372021-01-12T14:52:55.128-05:002021-01-12T14:52:55.128-05:00All commenters here find this topic (the substance...All commenters here find this topic (the substance) interesting of course but that puzzles me and is actually the only interesting part.Define interesting as novel or potentially useful practically or amusing. The topic does not meet the criteria except amusement which is very subjective. <br />To me the question is well beyond human understanding. Knowledge is different from understanding, can Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490835915837052199noreply@blogger.com