tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post445585265160849231..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: Who is crazy now? (In which I am stunned to encounter people who agree with me that naturalness is nonsense.)Sabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-1630128154184479062018-03-10T01:32:45.397-05:002018-03-10T01:32:45.397-05:00Louis Tagliaferro, scientists are aware of the exi...Louis Tagliaferro, scientists are aware of the existence of irrational relationships, but they do not know how to deal with irrational tasks. Scientists use the following principle to preserve science's monopoly on truth: Irrational relationships exist, but they ... are not reasonable, irrational relations are contradictory, irrational relationships do not make sense for this reason.<br /><brsevashko2014@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14658939824936548070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-4187141920735787282018-03-09T08:28:28.231-05:002018-03-09T08:28:28.231-05:00I liked your coment, Tyy.
In that same vein, the...I liked your coment, Tyy. <br /><br />In that same vein, the book "The Annotated Turing" reminded me that when the Greeks were developing geometry they had no concept for the number zero - it must not have seemed natural to them. (Also, Turing himself, in his first paper about Turing machines, had no concept that the "decimal point" becomes a binary point when dealing with JimVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10198704789965278981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-2099869817123463292018-03-08T19:49:32.038-05:002018-03-08T19:49:32.038-05:00When I started to study theoretical physics almost...When I started to study theoretical physics almost 40y ago, my goal was to understand reality. And more over, in some simple, natural way.<br /><br />I couldn't and that made me feel stupid. <br /><br />When I finally and painfully graduated, I turned away from physics to man made universes, which I could understand. Computers that was. I could understand them and they did not make me feel tyyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05296030725193206870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-29017531560725180952018-03-06T07:46:53.059-05:002018-03-06T07:46:53.059-05:00Vincent,
For a brief explanation on what naturaln...Vincent,<br /><br />For a brief explanation on what naturalness is, <a href="http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2017/11/naturalness-is-dead-long-live.html" rel="nofollow">see this blogpost</a>. For a somewhat longer explanation <a href="https://arxiv.org/abs/1801.02176" rel="nofollow">see this paper</a>. For the best of all possible explanations, <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-43664191322738812272018-03-06T03:24:21.019-05:002018-03-06T03:24:21.019-05:00Interesting post, but as a layman I don´t understa...Interesting post, but as a layman I don´t understand what exactly is meant by Naturalness. So it is not the same as simplicity?<br /><br />And how firm would you say the 'dentists' have been believing in Naturelness? Was there a tendency to believe that a good theory must be natural, or merely a notion that a Natural hypothesis is the first one you test if you have to choose between Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18312166792759529390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-13215587590186433642018-03-05T00:23:26.617-05:002018-03-05T00:23:26.617-05:00neo,
Perturbative QG is consistent in its regime ...neo,<br /><br />Perturbative QG is consistent in its regime of applicability and it might become testable soon. As to UV-completions, depends on whom you ask. Of course string theorists think string theory is consistent and LQGlers think LQG is consistent and everyone thinks their thing is the best thing. Having said that, your comments are off-topic and I neither have the time nor the interest Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-45297694340058824542018-03-04T22:27:54.842-05:002018-03-04T22:27:54.842-05:00Good for you insisting on getting your teeth right...Good for you insisting on getting your teeth right. Not all dentists have a proper esthetic sense. Most of them can get your teeth good enough for eating, but making them look "right" requires a lot more skill. In the US, those dentists tend to charge a lot more. Check out some of the smiles on tonight's Oscars and you'll see what $50K of dentistry looks like. That's $50K Kaleberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05283840743310507878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-34908377670029119182018-03-04T20:07:01.222-05:002018-03-04T20:07:01.222-05:00Bee
you talk about the importance of using experi...Bee<br /><br />you talk about the importance of using experiments, so as to not lead theorists astray<br />there are plenty of experiments and observation for GR and plenty of experiments for QM.<br /><br />at a minimum <br /><br />is there any theory of QG that reproduces GR in 4D (unless there is experimental or observational evidence of more than 4D) in DeSitter space and is fully consistent neohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17318664916557810347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-65457059558312461842018-03-04T11:11:44.729-05:002018-03-04T11:11:44.729-05:00I conclude we'll wait for the results of the t...I conclude we'll wait for the results of the test.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-2453102826027086392018-03-04T11:08:12.575-05:002018-03-04T11:08:12.575-05:00Bee,
thanks. what conclusions would you draw on Q...Bee,<br /><br />thanks. what conclusions would you draw on QG given that " A Spin Entanglement Witness for Quantum Gravity Bose" is a test that may be performed in the near term future?<br /><br />neohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17318664916557810347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-18138972757982121332018-03-04T10:30:21.753-05:002018-03-04T10:30:21.753-05:00I do hope they are likeminded people. As opposed t...I do hope they are likeminded people. As opposed to, say, being the same people that were critical of you in your discussions, now simply being flamboyant about accepting the change and producing new stuff without pausing for a moment to think about the implications of this all, and precisely the same people who in a couple of years will declare that they've been right in rejecting Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-84976423376766550452018-03-04T06:43:04.171-05:002018-03-04T06:43:04.171-05:00Only circular orbits for planets are natural. I b...Only circular orbits for planets are natural. I bet we can explain the apparently elliptical nature of planetary orbits by resolving them into a large number of circles. That would be natural and beautiful. Right.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08363770435343791235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-72431837203218240692018-03-04T00:54:45.044-05:002018-03-04T00:54:45.044-05:00neo,
I wrote about this here and on various insta...neo,<br /><br /><a href="http://nautil.us/issue/45/power/what-quantum-gravity-needs-is-more-experiments" rel="nofollow">I wrote about this here</a> and on various instances on this blog, but the Nautilus piece is the most recent one. Yes, I have heard of this proposal, <a href="https://indico.fias.uni-frankfurt.de/event/2/contribution/13/material/slides/0.pdf" rel="nofollow">probably before you Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-9002649401405989672018-03-03T15:53:35.293-05:002018-03-03T15:53:35.293-05:00Bee
what are the most promising and doable, tec...Bee<br /> <br /><br />what are the most promising and doable, technically and economically feasible experimental approaches to determine QG? any on the drawing board or any you or other propose?<br /><br />have you heard of this QG experiment - A Spin Entanglement Witness for Quantum Gravity Bose et al?<br />neohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17318664916557810347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-35840978887233754782018-03-03T12:36:42.305-05:002018-03-03T12:36:42.305-05:00neo,
I think the most promising approach to quant...neo,<br /><br />I think the most promising approach to quantum gravity is to look for experimental evidence and then use data to guide the development of the theory.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-6608516481801015752018-03-03T12:12:14.123-05:002018-03-03T12:12:14.123-05:00 Bee,
So what approach to QG do you think is mos... Bee,<br /><br />So what approach to QG do you think is most promising and why?<br /><br /> neohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17318664916557810347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-61793721527487398112018-03-03T11:53:37.052-05:002018-03-03T11:53:37.052-05:00@Sabine Hossenfelder "fermions and bosons gra...@Sabine Hossenfelder "<i>fermions and bosons gravitate</i>" “Non-identically” is a measurable option.<br /><br />https://chempics.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/carvone-enantiomers1.jpg<br /><br />The two molecules are non-superposable mirror images. No observation can tell them apart <i>in isolation</i>. Identical melting, boiling, triple point temps, critical pressures, temps, Uncle Alhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056804084187606211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-65701389470940854442018-03-03T05:48:09.150-05:002018-03-03T05:48:09.150-05:00Eusa,
Your comment makes no sense. Please omit su...Eusa,<br /><br />Your comment makes no sense. Please omit submitting further speculations, I will not approve them.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-24452600477536179172018-03-03T04:46:38.383-05:002018-03-03T04:46:38.383-05:00"Because fermions and bosons gravitate."..."Because fermions and bosons gravitate."<br /><br />Bosons implicate gravitational change and the relative momentum in stress-energy-momentum-tensor, right? <br /><br />So there is difference between them: fermions preserve structure for localized curvature and bosons preserve information of changes in curvatures (just like/as gravitational radiation).<br /><br />Still, you can considerEusahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14114706429392111062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-3714919026300702152018-03-03T01:12:27.074-05:002018-03-03T01:12:27.074-05:00neo,
"if gravity is emergent, and the result...neo,<br /><br /><i>"if gravity is emergent, and the result of entropy, or result of other speculative proposals*, and in no way involves fermions and bosons, why should standard model include gravity?"</i><br /><br />Because fermions and bosons gravitate. If they didn't, we'd all be dead.<br /><br />* no chanceSabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-69362142367355391442018-03-02T16:31:08.993-05:002018-03-02T16:31:08.993-05:00Nice write-up too in the cover story of the latest...Nice write-up too in the cover story of the latest issue of New Scientist: Welcome to the Uglyverse.<br /><br />Perhaps this is a sign that the heterodox view is starting to get a little more traction.The Czar Dictateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06158043357104789508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-39435161973290769612018-03-02T14:51:27.574-05:002018-03-02T14:51:27.574-05:00Maybe times are finally changing. Maybe we will ac...Maybe times are finally changing. Maybe we will actually live to see the post-naturalness era of physics.Matiashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11934544458974206202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-46622085970182666122018-03-02T13:59:40.388-05:002018-03-02T13:59:40.388-05:00Sabine,
Of course you are correct about groups an...Sabine,<br /><br />Of course you are correct about groups and I believe there is data that supports it. I feel it’s important to point out even though the safety of a group doesn’t mean they are wrong, there is a propensity for people to go along with the group and this makes it harder to detect or fix errors that have been accepted by consensus. This becomes increasingly difficult as they Louis Tagliaferrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16698865662162457632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-18488667014549500372018-03-02T11:41:07.803-05:002018-03-02T11:41:07.803-05:00Sabine
thanks that was what i was thinking.
&quo...Sabine<br /><br />thanks that was what i was thinking.<br /><br />"re If you merely mean a consistent completion of the standard model with gravity, then I would argue that's a requirement from consistency, not from beauty." <br /><br />if Nature has decreed gravity has a completely different origin than the standard model, why should standard model include gravity?<br /><br />to neohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17318664916557810347noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-32033885270977436212018-03-02T10:11:11.975-05:002018-03-02T10:11:11.975-05:00I never realized what naturalness was!I never realized what naturalness was!Michael John Sarnowskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00528454593064091302noreply@blogger.com