tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post1536946756534972716..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: Particle physics may have reached the end of the lineSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger132125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-8322516574653280232019-02-02T05:57:14.483-05:002019-02-02T05:57:14.483-05:00I slipped up on the quoted low end signal magnitud...I slipped up on the quoted low end signal magnitude stated in the 1st paragraph above. In most of the experimental runs, spanning the the years 2003-2006, the typical acceleration signal observed by the Tajmar group at the Austrian Research Center (ARC), was around 100 micro-g's, not ten's of milli-g's, as I recall. That would yield a 7 order of magnitude range from lowest to David Schroederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048116250413347228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-88496356005099806362019-02-01T13:32:09.653-05:002019-02-01T13:32:09.653-05:00In the interim, while a new accelerator is on inde...In the interim, while a new accelerator is on indefinite hold, perhaps some table-top experiments that might range from a few thousands to perhaps half a million dollars in cost would be worth pursuing. Specifically, I was thinking of some non-mainstream physics experiments conducted by both controversial and legitimate researchers. Back in the 90's into the first decade of this millennium,David Schroederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048116250413347228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-24262368190941876022019-02-01T13:14:20.867-05:002019-02-01T13:14:20.867-05:00Some might say that it doesn't matter that all...Some might say that it doesn't matter that all the recent particles and the whole Standard Model are extremely unlikely to yield any sort of practical gadget - maybe the last particle that has been actually 'used' is the pion - for cancer therapy.<br /><br />However, I suspect that it is practical applications that helps to keep physics grounded in reality. Even bad gadgets, such as David Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06172248428321078417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-44389112059971749202019-01-31T02:25:44.063-05:002019-01-31T02:25:44.063-05:00Sabine, I think you are right to question 'yet...Sabine, I think you are right to question 'yet another $20 Billion collider. But too gentle. In fact, as a model-builder, it looks to me like modern physics is in a crises of Kuhnian proportions, and has been for FAR too long. <br /><br /><br />Mathematical equations of 'poorly understood attributes' (anything at all) may yet be useful for engineering purposes. But they do NOT stand Mark Martenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16071450518363119462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-70728450456693659882019-01-30T01:42:29.475-05:002019-01-30T01:42:29.475-05:00Thanks for a very insightful article Sabine. Bein...Thanks for a very insightful article Sabine. Being bluntly honest isn't easy, particularly when there is so much money involved. Keep up the good work. :)Michael Mozinahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05049005936939688131noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-6461199204596589972019-01-29T07:50:45.758-05:002019-01-29T07:50:45.758-05:00I guess Nature is not only subtle, but also malici...I guess Nature is not only subtle, but also malicious.Arunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03451666670728177970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-3584021806795720362019-01-27T17:26:47.346-05:002019-01-27T17:26:47.346-05:00Mitchell,
it was related to the Higgs be...Mitchell,<br /> it was related to the Higgs being composite and related to the top sector, nothing that deep. It was mainly a narrative foil for the SUSY phenomenology which was for all intents and purposes a religion at the time and I knew many of the high priests. SUSY did have some very interesting features but it was getting squeezed by the end of LEP II with Run II at the Tevatron Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12542990049370908847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-37303618833832494272019-01-27T15:32:20.127-05:002019-01-27T15:32:20.127-05:00I'm astonished at the number of people who wan...I'm astonished at the number of people who want to frame the choice as "build a next-gen collider or stop looking for new physics". Equivalently, the number who pose it as "spend $20B because think what we might miss if we don't!".<br /><br />Do people really not understand that funding is finite, and the actual choice here is between a next-gen collider and <i>all theThe Czar Dictateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06158043357104789508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-15977362568541742482019-01-27T12:19:54.103-05:002019-01-27T12:19:54.103-05:00Particle physicists themselves fix higher and high...Particle physicists themselves fix higher and higher required energy levels, whereas their previsions fail, so that the new collider could have the same sort of the big infrastructure in Venice, MOSE, built to prevent lagoon tide but designed when G.W. effects on sea level were unknown.GMistendahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02908625050500348471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-45914562399378423392019-01-27T11:16:40.738-05:002019-01-27T11:16:40.738-05:00opamanfred wrote: Historically, ALL new colliders ...opamanfred wrote: Historically, ALL new colliders have produced particles "never seen before", so there's nothing to snigger about.<br /><br />Let's not expurgate all of the failed and misleading predictions from the history. Haven't you been paying attention to the discussions in this blog?<br /><br />By the say, I don't mind if the Chinese build a collider.Steven Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140374687362624448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-59639014568100386782019-01-26T18:19:25.965-05:002019-01-26T18:19:25.965-05:00https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ghostly...https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ghostly-galaxies-hint-at-dark-matter-breakthrough/<br /><br />It might be wise to spend money on big telescopes to find dark matter and dark energy. For 10 $billion, it may be best to put a huge telescope or a long baseline telescope array into orbit. Axilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07190120527431077518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-57861304979526320802019-01-26T16:06:25.562-05:002019-01-26T16:06:25.562-05:00Sabine,
Just for objectivity, it will be interesti...Sabine,<br />Just for objectivity, it will be interesting to see the public voting (probably in twitter) which field of science has priority for money funding.<br />Best <br />Valeriy TarasovVYThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06045912870351591421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-72578049522173106252019-01-26T15:05:06.924-05:002019-01-26T15:05:06.924-05:00Wibble
"Fundamental research is very valuable...Wibble<br />"Fundamental research is very valuable but resources are finite - when a pure mathematician wants even a few thousand Euro they don't say "it's cheap and who knows what I might find?" "<br /><br />Very nice formulated. <br /><br />Dave Miller in Sacramento<br />"Indeed, is it perhaps possible that we physicists often over-estimate our importance in theVYThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06045912870351591421noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-6439987365075263792019-01-26T10:49:57.460-05:002019-01-26T10:49:57.460-05:00There is a profound sense in what Jean and Steven ...There is a profound sense in what Jean and Steven are saying, so we have to face the unease of open societies with Popper's optimism. However what Sabine Hossenfelder is saying certainly does not mean we have to reduce investments and funds for scientific research, but rather to spend them there where Science itself (with its instruments) offers a realistic prospect. In other words: if I haveGMistendahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02908625050500348471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-29264783703467659192019-01-26T06:24:39.895-05:002019-01-26T06:24:39.895-05:00Unknown said
"It was an aside in my standard...Unknown said<br /><br />"It was an aside in my standard Higgs colloquium/seminar from the period and not a formal theory based prediction"<br /><br />Still, presumably there was some logic motivating the idea. What was that logic?Mitchellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10768655514143252049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-17015489940040820852019-01-26T04:05:39.970-05:002019-01-26T04:05:39.970-05:00Christian Tillmanns wrote:
>And all that is jus...Christian Tillmanns wrote:<br />>And all that is just a fraction of the price of loosing one of the most precious places on earth, where people from all kinds of nations, religions and what else, work peacefully together for a common goal to advance mankind.<br /><br />If I can elaborate on Sabine's response, after getting my Ph.D. in HEP theory, I went to work in industry. The first PhysicistDavehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11111405959451703182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-49320892449243246212019-01-26T04:04:02.637-05:002019-01-26T04:04:02.637-05:00Dear Dr. Hossenfelder
The LHC and who knows the FC...Dear Dr. Hossenfelder<br />The LHC and who knows the FCC in the future are the "raison d'ĂȘtre" of the CERN. Without it, it is just another lab. Nobody needs the CERN without the big machines. The place would soon be empty without them (Running CERN on a lower budget just to keep it alive is really a waste of money). This does not have to be a bad thing. It would shake up the Christian Tillmannshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13768105818305906964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-61151582188620311452019-01-26T02:40:54.849-05:002019-01-26T02:40:54.849-05:00There are still people making the 'actually th...There are still people making the 'actually this is cheap' argument above. In reality, it would take an appreciable amount of the overall European science spend, which is determined by politicians proportionally to the extent they see the overall enterprise of science as valuable to their constituents. If a new collider is funded then thousands of young scientists currently doing PhDs in Wibblehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00317442837166149918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-64533586193968786952019-01-26T01:51:21.366-05:002019-01-26T01:51:21.366-05:00@Steven
Historically, ALL new colliders have produ...@Steven<br />Historically, ALL new colliders have produced particles "never seen before", so there's nothing to snigger aboutTheLambLiesDownOnBroadwayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07148586222290109507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-78380425504438263342019-01-25T14:38:25.272-05:002019-01-25T14:38:25.272-05:00Jean wrote: Are discussions like this/on similar t...Jean wrote: Are discussions like this/on similar topics happening in China? Japan? India??<br /><br />I've been seeing reports that China is getting serious about building a collider that's about five to ten times more powerful than the LHC. It's expected to make plenty of Higgs as well as W and Z bosons. <br /><br />Of course, there are always the optimists who say that the collider Steven Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140374687362624448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-81730942699983069832019-01-25T14:21:25.350-05:002019-01-25T14:21:25.350-05:00Sabine wrote: And please spare us the mentioning o...Sabine wrote: And please spare us the mentioning of Berners-Lee. I have debunked this argument so often just thinking of having to repeat it one more time makes me sick.<br /><br />Berners-Lee is trying to reinvent the web again. If he succeeds, CERN won't get the credit this time. :-)Steven Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140374687362624448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-48034716058474174842019-01-25T13:21:34.483-05:002019-01-25T13:21:34.483-05:00"You make it sound as if potential impact sho...<i>"You make it sound as if potential impact should be a reason to not fund something."</i><br /><br />No, not at all, but the converse: just because something has no impact is not a reason not to fund it. The more scientists tout "impact" (or "potential impact") as a reason to fund something, especially fundamental physics which should be funded for different Phillip Helbighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12067585245603436809noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-5237278072424566392019-01-25T10:40:43.380-05:002019-01-25T10:40:43.380-05:00This may have already been mentioned/discussed; if...This may have already been mentioned/discussed; if so, apologies for the repetition.<br /><br />What about China (Japan, India, ...)? <br /><br />Any chance CERN could invite/induce them to join and pay for a big part of the cost of an FCC or similar?<br /><br />If CERN/the EU passes (on an FCC, etc), and subsequently China (etc) goes ahead with one (for whatever reasons), how likely is it that JeanTatehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08737430572613792118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-78675417417265284522019-01-25T10:21:38.795-05:002019-01-25T10:21:38.795-05:00Mitchell,
no I am not the author, mine p...Mitchell,<br /> no I am not the author, mine predates that paper by 14 years. It was an aside in my standard Higgs colloquium/seminar from the period and not a formal theory based prediction. I remember a lively discussion it prompted at U-T Austin (yes, he was in the audience) <br /><br />Fun times....<br /><br /> <br /><br /> Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12542990049370908847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-79684298160745335792019-01-25T10:21:12.391-05:002019-01-25T10:21:12.391-05:00From the recent discussions in several places, I s...From the recent discussions in several places, I see that beside the right time and the right place for "Lost In Math" the difference between the book events "Not Even Wrong", "The Trouble with Physics" and "Lost In Math" is the courage to say about "emperor's new clothes".VYThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06045912870351591421noreply@blogger.com