tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post8993691887200753332..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: The trouble with Facebook and what it has in common with scientific publishing.Sabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-40582377474484680172019-05-17T09:33:44.330-04:002019-05-17T09:33:44.330-04:00You do not "contradict" me, you are evid...You do not "contradict" me, you are evidently unable to comprehend even simple sentences. That you have now retreated to ad hominem attacks rather than admitting your mistakes does not work in your favor. You do not have to bother submitting further comments, this conversation ends here. I hope you will finally manage to understand your mistake. Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-64149526534655253662019-05-17T06:44:21.906-04:002019-05-17T06:44:21.906-04:00It really is amazing that you can have your own wo...It really is amazing that you can have your own words right in front of you and still say that they don't mean what they clearly do. Your typical arrogant, scornful replies to anyone who contradicts you are not arguments in your favor, and they have no substance. Try again.Archimedes218https://www.blogger.com/profile/12242764583554426760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-80870942318197882972019-05-16T17:10:26.618-04:002019-05-16T17:10:26.618-04:00Eric, When I was a boy, personal responsibility wa...Eric, When I was a boy, personal responsibility was fairly common; it was the way we earned self respect. <br />It was taught with the Plege of Allegiance in grade school, with Civics and the Constitution in High School, and required by employers to hold a job.<br />My generation passed on problems enough, but we passed this on, too.<br />If we could do it once in the US, people everywhere can doKorean War Photo Documentaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12109120741562284394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-22148101243150942522019-05-15T15:35:37.262-04:002019-05-15T15:35:37.262-04:00I never became part of Facebook or any major socia...I never became part of Facebook or any major social media and after all these years It hasn't felt like I've missed much. <--- that's a possible solution to the problem for others too.Louis Tagliaferrohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16698865662162457632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-2365004997027786222019-05-14T23:40:39.904-04:002019-05-14T23:40:39.904-04:00KWPD,
Well sure, a dearth of personal responsibil...KWPD, <br />Well sure, a dearth of personal responsibility might be thought of as a core problem. But how might we cause people in general to become “more responsible” to thus alleviate that issue? To me that sounds challenging in all sorts of ways. In the mean time it might be best to have government step in. And as Dr. H mentioned, we shouldn’t let government be what filters our informationPhilosopher Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11126076811765843302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-21317027663034860722019-05-14T08:34:38.502-04:002019-05-14T08:34:38.502-04:00Archimedes,
"That is exactly saying that whe...Archimedes,<br /><br /><i>"That is exactly saying that when someone cites another paper in their own work, they are doing it not because that paper has relevance and scientific connection to their own, but only because that paper is "popular"."</i><br /><br />No, it is not. I made no statement about why someone cites someone else. I already told you to please first think Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-12781846325420238572019-05-14T06:44:01.990-04:002019-05-14T06:44:01.990-04:00Here's what you said:
"The ONLY thing th...Here's what you said:<br /><br />"The ONLY thing the number of citations really demonstrates is popularity. Citations are a measure that’s as disconnected from scientific relevance as the number of likes is from the truth value of an article on Facebook."<br /><br />That is exactly saying that when someone cites another paper in their own work, they are doing it not because that Archimedes218https://www.blogger.com/profile/12242764583554426760noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-5392974279709380662019-05-13T21:27:30.306-04:002019-05-13T21:27:30.306-04:00IMO citations are irrelevant. It's hard to be ...IMO citations are irrelevant. It's hard to be popular if a theory is "incomprehensible" to most people including scientists. Scientific revolutions are often like this. If they were easy, they would have been discovered long ago. Revolutions are unlikely to come from popular mainstream ideas. Popular and revolution are almost a contradiction.Enricohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11062542721973950650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-72231842088534032352019-05-13T20:22:24.344-04:002019-05-13T20:22:24.344-04:00I published a paper some time back where a reviewe...I published a paper some time back where a reviewer wanted more citations, where I already had 15 or so on a short 4-5 page paper. I had to reference some over a number of minutia points. Einstein's paper on the Pondermotive force of moving charged bodies, which ushered in special relativity, cited no other papers.<br /><br />Social media is just the start. Notice how people are addicted to Lawrence Crowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12090839464038445335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-32209178224477776622019-05-13T15:54:15.534-04:002019-05-13T15:54:15.534-04:00I have thought that the space of all (Twitter) twe...I have thought that the space of all (Twitter) tweets (and now threads, which are like paths in Twitter space) is an interesting scientific subject - and I'm sure papers and theses have already been written on it. And tools for managing the Twitter "information firehose" are apparently there, but only to a minor extent. But that there is a Facebook space of information (or Philip Thrifthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03021615111948806998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-30262008156473670742019-05-13T15:44:25.805-04:002019-05-13T15:44:25.805-04:00Sabine,
Sorry I wasn't clear, what I mean is ...Sabine,<br /><br />Sorry I wasn't clear, what I mean is that censorship has an awful tendency to spread, and your opposition is obviously disliked by many wealthy businessmen (who may not care a damn about science)- so at some point you might find yourself censored in some way.<br /><br />As regards the legal system, I guess there are no laws that stop Facebook censoring more extensively - David Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06172248428321078417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-41022292093074624452019-05-13T14:58:22.099-04:002019-05-13T14:58:22.099-04:00Hello Sabine,
thank you for pointing these relate...Hello Sabine,<br /><br />thank you for pointing these related problems out!<br />This is very important to democracy and to science – to us.<br /><br />But what we gonna do about it?<br />– To please our government to help us? How ever …<br />– To please Facebook to be kind to us and change their behaviour for our needs and make not as much money out of their power as they can make now?<br /><br Wolfgang Hußhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08895613996562612582noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-14878038056019802192019-05-13T09:06:37.372-04:002019-05-13T09:06:37.372-04:00They may be useful, but the point is that usefulne...They may be useful, but the point is that usefulness is not relevant. What's relevant is the popularity.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-20394019891520605222019-05-13T08:45:12.776-04:002019-05-13T08:45:12.776-04:00Dr. H and Eric, Isn't a core problem today a ...Dr. H and Eric, Isn't a core problem today a lack of personal sense of responsibility? Everywhere, at every level? Whatever the cost to others?<br />If not, trying to fix facebook, or to engineer the atmosphere or to address other specific menaces might be invaluable uses of our resources.<br />But, If so, wouldn't fixing irresponsible behavior attack a host of desperate problems at Korean War Photo Documentaryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12109120741562284394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-15868636183514455362019-05-13T08:32:01.902-04:002019-05-13T08:32:01.902-04:00I see, it's better work on popular and oftenti...I see, it's better work on popular and oftentimes useless topics like "AdS/CFT" :-)MarkusMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03431499396962852389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-87127294112784026242019-05-13T08:14:51.549-04:002019-05-13T08:14:51.549-04:00Markus,
I was assuming that your comment was abou...Markus,<br /><br />I was assuming that your comment was about facebook. Regarding citations, of course you can cite whoever you want, but that's missing the point. It's not about who you cite but about who cites you. That influences what you work on to begin with. Same with facebook. What people like, what people share, that's what news providers will try to deliver. Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-68397391626027140102019-05-13T07:55:15.099-04:002019-05-13T07:55:15.099-04:00Isn't everybody free to cite whoever (s)he wan...Isn't everybody free to cite whoever (s)he wants ? Could one be denied to publish a paper which only cites papers with low citation rates ? What's that game you are refering to ?<br /><br />I never got the impression that citation rate is a bad measure of the RELATIVE quality of scientific work. E.g. the work of Nobel Prize winners is always highly cited. <br />The bigger problem I see MarkusMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03431499396962852389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-17427175035124219722019-05-13T06:52:13.560-04:002019-05-13T06:52:13.560-04:00David,
We have long known that a democratic socie...David,<br /><br />We have long known that a democratic society cannot work if people in power are allowed to threaten or intimidate minorities. For this reason, some amount of censorship is necessary to protect democracy: Otherwise some people will effectively be silenced. <br /><br />Having said this, Facebook of course shouldn't make these rules. These are national laws that differ from oneSabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-74078139957336536442019-05-13T06:07:02.306-04:002019-05-13T06:07:02.306-04:00Sabine,
I do appreciate this blog, and I have zer...Sabine,<br /><br />I do appreciate this blog, and I have zero wish to join Facebook. Facebook seems to have extended its role to include censorship. I have no problem about censoring violence, extreme porn, and suchlike, but when it comes to censoring people for their views, that goes too far. <br /><br />Censorship spreads and spreads - how long before powerful voices whisper in Mark Zuckerberg&David Baileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06172248428321078417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-44847164794879459442019-05-13T05:34:50.516-04:002019-05-13T05:34:50.516-04:00Philip,
It may depend on where you live and, yes,...Philip,<br /><br />It may depend on where you live and, yes, also on what you have "liked" in the past. I happen to have a lot of facebook friends in the USA and Great Britain, and during the presidential election / Brexit campaign, my feed was full with political news from those countries. Nevermind that I do not actually live there and, as I said, don't get my political news from Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-83328997573492827262019-05-13T05:23:58.935-04:002019-05-13T05:23:58.935-04:00"System inherent" assumes a fixed system..."System inherent" assumes a fixed system, which is a mistake. Besides that, I don't know what makes you think I have a problem with preferential attachment. The problem is that the "preferential" attachment at present does not actually represent user's "preferences", instead it represents who plays the game the best. Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-27783838326063851872019-05-13T04:47:30.696-04:002019-05-13T04:47:30.696-04:00How do you want to prevent the Pareto distribution...How do you want to prevent the Pareto distribution and preferential attachment, it's system inherent?MarkusMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03431499396962852389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-2083926542266355872019-05-13T04:37:59.492-04:002019-05-13T04:37:59.492-04:00The whole Facebook controversy is a bit over my he...<br />The whole Facebook controversy is a bit over my head. I've read the NYTimes article by Chris Hughes[1] (and seen him interviewed on TV, and I sort of "get it"), but I can't connect to all the hubbub. All I use Facebook for is to "locally" connect to people I know personally - some relatives and friends who use Facebook - and perhaps to check for local events in Philip Thrifthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03021615111948806998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-13394845478046250052019-05-13T02:37:10.671-04:002019-05-13T02:37:10.671-04:00The trouble with Facebook is the lack of competiti...The trouble with Facebook is the lack of competitive power to face Facebook.martenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02423871089614417690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-42830399863922025962019-05-13T00:15:40.930-04:002019-05-13T00:15:40.930-04:00Archimedes,
I haven't said anything of that s...Archimedes,<br /><br />I haven't said anything of that sort. How about you try to understand what I am saying before blaming your lack of comprehension on me.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.com