tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post897235897965018319..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: Science and Democracy IVSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-59313343753562505342009-02-16T11:51:00.000-05:002009-02-16T11:51:00.000-05:00Hi Bee,“Though extremely simplistic, it seems to m...Hi Bee,<BR/><BR/>“Though extremely simplistic, it seems to me to capture a fundamental truth that in many cases people do just accept something as a norm for not having to think about it, and this wish of not having to think is rational in the sense that it saves time and energy.”<BR/><BR/>When you look at it what this turns out to be is very close to instinct and what then follows instinctive Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-81516702096943734632009-02-16T09:46:00.000-05:002009-02-16T09:46:00.000-05:00Hi Phil,I would agree if the virtues of science ar...Hi Phil,<BR/><BR/><I>I would agree if the virtues of science are held by people in earnest that democracy would most likely follow as the only reasonable way to govern</I><BR/><BR/>I would agree on this, but I neither think this is likely to happen, nor is it necessary. What commonly seems to happen instead is that a well-meant change becomes popularized and then is transformed into an ideology Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-27436887472250130592009-02-16T09:38:00.000-05:002009-02-16T09:38:00.000-05:00Dear Arun,Sure, I was just trying to say labeling ...Dear Arun,<BR/><BR/>Sure, I was just trying to say labeling something as 'the most succesfull human activity' is a very fuzzy notion and without further specification subject to interpretation (and silly jokes). Best,<BR/><BR/>B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-87190793915933484282009-02-11T23:03:00.000-05:002009-02-11T23:03:00.000-05:00Dear Bee,Since breathing is a prerequisite for sc...Dear Bee,<BR/><BR/>Since breathing is a prerequisite for science and presumably for sex as well, breathing must be the most successful human activity -- which brings one to realize we're comparing things from different levels on a hierarchy, which doesn't make a lot of sense.<BR/><BR/>---<BR/><BR/>The difficult to resolve human problem is the balance between independence (free to work on what Arunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03451666670728177970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-21633606940518942632009-02-11T15:35:00.000-05:002009-02-11T15:35:00.000-05:00Very nice, short piece Bee. In particular "It is ...Very nice, short piece Bee. In particular <BR/><BR/>"It is thus a recurrring theme in my writings that democracy can only work if the people that constitute a nation are well-informed (that means well informed also about which question require expert knowledge)."<BR/><BR/>Hence, each country (well, let's be more general, each society) must strive to have a strong system of public education. I Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-24631783578896484992009-02-11T12:40:00.000-05:002009-02-11T12:40:00.000-05:00Sorry, any human activity that results in George W...<I>Sorry, any human activity that results in George W. Bush as one of its products cannot be counted as successful.</I><BR/><BR/>Hello Arun,<BR/>that activity should not measured <BR/>by the "result" G.W.Bush. There are <BR/>millions of men on earth which are <BR/>even more idiotic. <BR/>The problem is the system which selected him <B>twice</B> to the <BR/>presidency of a superpower.<BR/>GeorgGeorghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02538391164351204407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-22416933897562616992009-02-11T09:14:00.000-05:002009-02-11T09:14:00.000-05:00Hi Cormac,One problem with modern democracy is tha...Hi Cormac,<BR/><BR/><I>One problem with modern democracy is that the public vote is not always informed - sometimes majority opinion is simply wrong (think of Hitler).</I><BR/><BR/>That's why in 'modern democracies' we only in very rare cases make decisions by majority votes. What you have in mind is a very simplistic form of democracy that is in fact practiced in no country I know of (it is Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-59457014137530818542009-02-11T08:59:00.000-05:002009-02-11T08:59:00.000-05:00Dear Arun,Well, it might not be 'successful' in ab...Dear Arun,<BR/><BR/>Well, it might not be 'successful' in absolute terms, but has certainly been 'more successful' than science. Just ask yourself if there had been science without sex? Otoh, this might be changing: nowadays it seems two people can have children together without ever meeting each other (or the children for that matter). Quite strange what science can do. Best,<BR/><BR/>B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-75620996463630829832009-02-11T06:55:00.000-05:002009-02-11T06:55:00.000-05:00Hi Bee,A nice continuance on the theme and I would...Hi Bee,<BR/><BR/>A nice continuance on the theme and I would also agree that Overbye has gone somewhat overboard in his linking democracy and science. However, I would agree if the virtues of science are held by people in earnest that democracy would most likely follow as the only reasonable way to govern. However, as I believe Plato is alluding to it has more to do with the requirement to Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-80848353058788944902009-02-11T06:46:00.000-05:002009-02-11T06:46:00.000-05:00Re "The aim of science on the other hand is not to...Re "The aim of science on the other hand is not to come to a common conclusion about people's opinions by whatever mechanism. The aim is to come to a common conclusion about Nature", there is another difference.<BR/>In science, it is the opinions of the experts (or at least the well-informed) that carries weight and that eventually settles the dispute. <BR/>One problem with modern democracy is Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-53617175389675221892009-02-11T02:57:00.000-05:002009-02-11T02:57:00.000-05:00oops!Bee:but about the process of knowledge discov...oops!<BR/><BR/><B>Bee</B>:<I>but about the process of knowledge discovery itself</I><BR/><BR/>I think wandering in and around those of the trade leave an indelible mark on the process.<BR/><BR/> Experimental validation serving as a an end mark to a successful conclusion. Good or bad. Is brought to bear on the simplicity of how to approach life "so neat and tidy in a box?" <BR/><BR/>So, some have PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-91079341359406104612009-02-11T02:46:00.000-05:002009-02-11T02:46:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-85520106173370196372009-02-10T21:58:00.000-05:002009-02-10T21:58:00.000-05:00I would have thought the most successful human act...<I>I would have thought the most successful human activity is sex.</I><BR/><BR/>Sorry, any human activity that results in George W. Bush as one of its products cannot be counted as successful.Arunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03451666670728177970noreply@blogger.com