tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post8879329544174968989..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: Collective excitementSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-52320974971917420622011-07-19T03:04:49.325-04:002011-07-19T03:04:49.325-04:00Hi Jochen,
Yes, I think I know what you mean.
Bu...Hi Jochen,<br /><br />Yes, I think I know what you mean.<br /><br />But Chorost is not saying that it might be possible to actually know how it is to 'be' someone else. What he is envisioning is far more mundane, he is basically suggesting to skip the detour that today's communication makes through a keyboard, and so comes with it the limitations that a keyboard has, limitations that Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-5442776165862649152011-07-19T02:56:34.175-04:002011-07-19T02:56:34.175-04:00Hi Phil,
Well, Chorost in his book brings up the ...Hi Phil,<br /><br />Well, Chorost in his book brings up the analogy to superorganisms and says that these go along with an increase of specialization rather than just being a collective with a herd instinct. I think he has a point there. It makes sense that once there is enough connectivity not everybody has to do everything. Think about how living in cities has allowed people to specialize in Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-21981359759688478982011-07-18T07:53:49.923-04:002011-07-18T07:53:49.923-04:00Collective Intelligence......thanks Steven for rem...Collective Intelligence......thanks Steven for reminding:)<br /><br />So you can now add a "<a href="http://eskesthai.blogspot.com/2011/07/cern-brings-hardware-into-open.html" rel="nofollow">new category</a>" to this <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/45/CI_types1s.jpg" rel="nofollow">image</a><br /><br />One might of course wonder about such application in relation to PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-55609323128613877802011-07-18T07:33:03.932-04:002011-07-18T07:33:03.932-04:00Communicating with Intelligent Aliens
Yes you &qu...<a href="http://rsrc.psychologytoday.com/files/imagecache/article-inline-half/blogs/51234/2011/05/64568-54938.jpg" rel="nofollow">Communicating with Intelligent Aliens</a><br /><br />Yes you "sparked" my interest Bee.<br /><br /><i>Lakoff and Johnson explain that as bipedal beings living in a gravity field, we tend to speak of good things as being high and bad things as being low. (PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-88135421501272187702011-07-18T00:10:45.380-04:002011-07-18T00:10:45.380-04:00Hi Giotis,
Well, we're so unique not. Our bra...Hi Giotis,<br /><br />Well, we're so unique not. Our brains might all be different in the structural details by they are the same in the functionality and to a large extend also in the concepts they are able to encode. We do share a common language for example, which is very nontrivial. I am reasonably sure we'd also both be able to hear and understand recordings, figure out what's onSabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-58059099967858749252011-07-17T14:23:01.509-04:002011-07-17T14:23:01.509-04:00Hi Christine,
I’m truly sorry if you were taken b...Hi Christine,<br /><br />I’m truly sorry if you were taken back by my assessment and happy to learn you’ve given me some latitude. I guess where we differ is that you find such a link could have us lose our humanity, while I drew the analogy previously with leaf cutter ants and thus would ask if finding them capable of being more linked than any others of their species has them to be lesser antsPhil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-2635658640615323482011-07-17T13:40:27.615-04:002011-07-17T13:40:27.615-04:00Would have they come out the same if not for lonel...<i>Would have they come out the same if not for lonely minds?</i><br /> <br />Correct to:<br /><br /><i>Would have they come out the same as they did if not for lonely minds?</i>Christine Cordula Dantashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05271747374185459530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-44879999650694161602011-07-17T13:30:36.853-04:002011-07-17T13:30:36.853-04:00Phil,
That is your interpretation, not mine. (And...Phil,<br /><br />That is your interpretation, not mine. (And if that didn't come from you, I'd take it as an insult).<br /><br />Just simply do this exercise: think of all philosophy, literature and historical actions. Would have they come out the same if not for lonely minds?<br /><br />Why connecting minds is equal to evolution? Do you know in advance exactly what this would bring? Christine Cordula Dantashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05271747374185459530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-59129705410401315242011-07-17T10:51:30.077-04:002011-07-17T10:51:30.077-04:00Hi Christine,
“see it as a drawback for the human...Hi Christine,<br /><br />“see it as a drawback for the human condition. The loneliness of the brain is what makes us humans.”<br /><br />I find this as almost being a homocentric religious perspective, as to contend that both the human condition and it capacities representing being a preferred or perfect state. Not only does this lend an aspect of futility to existence respective of the future, Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-86813704307763622042011-07-17T10:19:59.085-04:002011-07-17T10:19:59.085-04:00Hi Bee,
I value your recommendation, but I think ...Hi Bee,<br /><br />I value your recommendation, but I think I won't read it, at least for the moment. Yes, maybe it's not too far in the future to reach the technology to have a twitter in our minds, but I still think it can't work the way we expect today. Maybe I am just too old and already from a past generation, but in any case, I don't think such a connection, in whatever Christine Cordula Dantashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05271747374185459530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-8715481868383772212011-07-17T06:05:29.958-04:002011-07-17T06:05:29.958-04:00Well, we are unique, we are alone and incomprehens...Well, we are unique, we are alone and incomprehensible to others (in the deep sense). We can't escape ourselves much like a light ray can' escape the horizon:)Giotishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03594944884584261018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-50391796300941491292011-07-17T05:23:34.700-04:002011-07-17T05:23:34.700-04:00Hi Giotis,
What makes you think so? Best,
B.Hi Giotis,<br /><br />What makes you think so? Best,<br /><br />B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-47656657992572086322011-07-17T05:21:41.224-04:002011-07-17T05:21:41.224-04:00This can't work. Human psyche lies behind a ho...This can't work. Human psyche lies behind a horizon which prevent us from interacting this way.Giotishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03594944884584261018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-51304933880186027432011-07-16T12:16:28.518-04:002011-07-16T12:16:28.518-04:00@Oldershaw, on your own off-topic ground: Confor...@Oldershaw, on your own off-topic ground: Conformal invariance must be broken to describe empirical reality.<br /><br />Chiral algebras yield conformal field theory. How does non-linear dynamical symmetry chirality have linear algebraic consequences? Conformal field theory is typically explored in 2-D. In higher physical dimensions (e.g., Calabi-Yau, AdS/CFT correspondence, supersymmetric gaugeUncle Alhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056804084187606211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-38190639169617462402011-07-16T12:03:10.308-04:002011-07-16T12:03:10.308-04:00Your assessment is both true and false.
The gener...Your assessment is both true and false.<br /><br />The general topics of fractals, conformal modeling, renormalization and self-similarity are actually reasonably popular topics.<br /><br />On the other hand, it is demonstrably true that almost no one has any sustained interest in my ideas.<br /><br />For example, no one pointed out that the Poincare group is a 10-parameter group, not an Robert L. Oldershawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15396555790655312393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-78367620428342895722011-07-16T10:27:28.808-04:002011-07-16T10:27:28.808-04:00Hi Bee,
thanks for your reply. The Borg comment w...Hi Bee,<br /><br />thanks for your reply. The Borg comment was somewhat facetious -- I don't actually think that's a real danger; the 1984 comparison (perhaps a warning example, but not a realistic prediction) is a good one, I think.<br /><br />Anyway, I can neither criticize argumentation I'm not familiar with, nor am I going to spam my personal pet theories on your blog; but I thinkJochenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07418841955052661428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-57441052531582200892011-07-16T09:37:52.219-04:002011-07-16T09:37:52.219-04:00Hi Bee,
Good points, however this leaves me curio...Hi Bee,<br /><br />Good points, however this leaves me curious about what can have us distinguish between a herding instinct over that of collective purposefulness. That is for instance like the difference between when buffalo acting in unified fear have themselves <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_jump" rel="nofollow">driven off cliffs</a> to their deaths compared to the <a href="Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-46932191028591445002011-07-16T05:26:35.503-04:002011-07-16T05:26:35.503-04:00Hi Jochen,
Yes, Chorost explains very well that a...Hi Jochen,<br /><br />Yes, Chorost explains very well that a lot of what we think is 'observation' is actually a creation based on the observer's expectations. And yes, of course you'd share something of yourself. The book dedicates some pages to the Borg-myth, and I'm actually with him on it. It's a dystopia of forceful assimilation that's undesirable but also Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-37736355926196719142011-07-16T05:07:19.661-04:002011-07-16T05:07:19.661-04:00Hmm, I'm not sure this particular kind of shar...Hmm, I'm not sure this particular kind of sharing ideas can work -- it seems to rely on representationalist accounts of consciousness (loosely, there is an 'idea' and an 'observer' who has that idea, or who perceives it in a 'Cartesian theater', as Daniel Dennett calls it), which I think is naive -- I don't think there really is a sharp divide between 'observedJochenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07418841955052661428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-41517216932401912602011-07-16T05:01:32.742-04:002011-07-16T05:01:32.742-04:00Hi Christine,
Well, maybe you should read the boo...Hi Christine,<br /><br />Well, maybe you should read the book. I don't think it's as implausible or as far in the future as you make it sound, and Chorost makes a quite convincing case at least on the point of what is doable. I meanwhile finished reading the book though and I find he hasn't given a lot of thought to the implementation, consequences and problems, which is somewhat Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-5107580497087940022011-07-16T04:59:15.833-04:002011-07-16T04:59:15.833-04:00Hi Robert,
I suspect not even a brain implant wou...Hi Robert,<br /><br />I suspect not even a brain implant would let you realize the lack of excitement about your ideas. Best,<br /><br />B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-70932464552192255962011-07-16T04:57:47.960-04:002011-07-16T04:57:47.960-04:00Hi Ulla,
Yes, Chorost also writes about superorga...Hi Ulla,<br /><br />Yes, Chorost also writes about superorganisms, ants in particular. However, his analogies are a very vague and I found them not particularly insightful. Best,<br /><br />B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-30496605223632648102011-07-15T19:59:01.500-04:002011-07-15T19:59:01.500-04:00Let's try it!
I'm thinking of a way to ex...Let's try it!<br /><br />I'm thinking of a way to extend the symmetry group for the Einstein-Maxwell equations in hopes of unifying GR and QM.<br /><br />Let's see: Poincare Group [11param.] to Conformal Group [15 param.]? <br /><br />Hmm, but masses are invariant, right? A hydrogen atom or a proton has a well-defined mass that does not vary. So that does not appear to work.<br /><br Robert L. Oldershawhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15396555790655312393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-20029076388580116282011-07-15T13:57:37.582-04:002011-07-15T13:57:37.582-04:00Interconnect brains to brains and all you will hea...Interconnect brains to brains and all you will hear is beige screams. Discovery is insubordination. You cannot manage discovery, you can only manage to end it (e.g., Lucent Technologies).<br /><br />The Krell machine was 8000 cubic miles of klystron relays powered by the energy of an exploding star system, capable of projecting solid matter with volition anywhere on the planet, by mere thought.Uncle Alhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05056804084187606211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-880741044225443622011-07-15T13:06:51.785-04:002011-07-15T13:06:51.785-04:00Superorganisms are already created by Nature. In f...Superorganisms are already created by Nature. In fact, the human consciousness may partly be due to superorganism-charachters created by our mitochondrias and other inherent bacterias with a mass of about 2 kg.<br /><br />Mitochondrias are more important for the intelligence than anything else, incl. genome.<br /><br />But this discussion resembles much the discussion of the qualias, one (bad?) Ullahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16634036177244152897noreply@blogger.com