tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post882746134596209646..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: The Trouble With Physics: AftermathSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger120125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-1412164895637759322009-08-29T12:16:46.900-04:002009-08-29T12:16:46.900-04:00Hi Philip & Bee;
Philip said: Contemporary t...Hi Philip & Bee;<br /><br />Philip said: <i> Contemporary theoretical physics is too difficult to attract significant numbers of students. </i><br /><br />Bee replies: <i> Contemporary theoretical physics has an overproduction of PhDs which is one of the main causes for all our problems. </i><br /><br />I see this as an interesting dichotomy, where Philip as being an economist and Bee as a Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-44499538438965683332009-08-29T05:07:57.183-04:002009-08-29T05:07:57.183-04:00Contemporary theoretical physics is too difficult ...<i>Contemporary theoretical physics is too difficult to attract significant numbers of students.</i><br /><br />Incorrect. Contemporary theoretical physics has an overproduction of PhDs which is one of the main causes for all our problems. <br /><br />"Difficult" btw is a personal judgement.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-85490031376160453182009-08-28T21:17:29.334-04:002009-08-28T21:17:29.334-04:00In academic life, there is a hard unspoken law: we...In academic life, there is a hard unspoken law: we all have justify our jobs in one of three ways: student numbers, grant money, or fame. To go for fame is a gamble with a low probability of success.<br /><br />Contemporary theoretical physics is too difficult to attract significant numbers of students. To justify one's university employment by teaching numbers, one has to develop at least Philip Meguirenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-23218810183025461372007-09-28T19:41:00.000-04:002007-09-28T19:41:00.000-04:00Dear Bee,There is a fantastic book called "Discipl...Dear Bee,<BR/><BR/>There is a fantastic book called "Disciplined Minds", by Jeff Schmidt on stress, pressure facing graduate students (and faculty), and the general conformity that it induces. I would highly recommend you have a look at it. Would love to hear your comments on it.<BR/><BR/>Nice post and discussion here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-88746888872424086822007-09-25T03:21:00.000-04:002007-09-25T03:21:00.000-04:00There is one obvious drawback with 10-year postdoc...There is one obvious drawback with 10-year postdoc positions: being kicked out of academia at 38 is considerably worse than being kicked out at 32. Already a four-year postdoc, at least in something as useless as theoretical physics, is probably a negative merit for most non-academic jobs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-66108345113817088352007-09-24T16:15:00.000-04:002007-09-24T16:15:00.000-04:00You suggestion being? To mention you like what was...You suggestion being? To mention you like what was said before: <I>As for solutions, I do find the idea of NSF-like theory postdocs potentially interesting. Maybe one could even make them five year postdocs to try to kill two birds with one stone.</I> <BR/><BR/>Don't misunderstand me, I totally like this suggestion, but exactly which problem do you think it addresses, does that solve all the Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-74632037749888522007-09-24T16:08:00.000-04:002007-09-24T16:08:00.000-04:00(trying the comment again)You see, here I was thin...(trying the comment again)<BR/><BR/>You see, here I was thinking I was making a constructive suggestion for improving the situation (which you seem to have ignored.) Apparently, no. The fact that I think a survey wouldn't tell us anything we didn't already know and can't remember the surveys I've answered in the past seems to mean that I just have wounded pride about Lee's book.<BR/><BR/>OK, thenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-57746479471156421612007-09-24T14:28:00.000-04:002007-09-24T14:28:00.000-04:00While I'm at it, here are some quotes from an arti...While I'm at it, here are some quotes from an article I came across by Kenneth Wilson discussing the history of his research, especially w.r.t. lattice gauge theory (hep-lat/0412043). His seems quite an interesting case to consider in the context of this discussion.<BR/><BR/>"The history of my role in the origins of the lattice gauge theory was a short one, confined to a single year. But one Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-49274757769036828432007-09-24T14:13:00.000-04:002007-09-24T14:13:00.000-04:00Aaron bergman said... I think I remember one from ...<I>Aaron bergman said... <BR/>I think I remember one from the APS and one from phds.org, maybe? They all blend together after a while.</I><BR/><BR/>Okay, just to wrap up the status of this exchange. I <A HREF="http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2007/09/trouble-with-physics-aftermath.html#c2455918720160149875" REL="nofollow">point out</A> that neither you nor anybody else has come up with any Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-6075543481623424782007-09-24T13:38:00.000-04:002007-09-24T13:38:00.000-04:00I suspect that many people out there think that th...<I>I suspect that many people out there think that the "best" people somehow always get recognized one way or another, even if they have to work in a patent office for a while. But that's a fallacy, </I><BR/><BR/>Indeed, it's a very nice example for a confirmation bias. The good people who didn't get recognized, well, they never got recognized, so how do you justify the word 'always'? That is to Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-61926105387463225442007-09-24T13:16:00.000-04:002007-09-24T13:16:00.000-04:00Having thought about it a bit more I'ld like to go...Having thought about it a bit more I'ld like to go back and give another answer to what Hypnose wrote, since I suspect his view is shared by many.<BR/><BR/>"I happen to think that the present system is picking up the best people somehow no matter how darwinian it may look."<BR/><BR/>It's worth bearing in mind that the system has evolved over time, and there is no reason to think that it has Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-7979652945098859782007-09-24T07:16:00.000-04:002007-09-24T07:16:00.000-04:00Bee wrote It is very interesting to hear about you...Bee wrote <EM>It is very interesting to hear about your experiences on the subject as a programmer. You write "good solution to frequent problems are known, but widely ignored," - what do you think is the reason for this?</EM><BR/><BR/>I can think of two distinct cases, depending on whether the solution is known to someone somewhere but not to a particular individual, or whether the solution is Christophe de Dinechinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15212549796119667462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-7451532642689194972007-09-24T02:50:00.000-04:002007-09-24T02:50:00.000-04:00Bee wrote:In the spirit of making the discussion o...Bee wrote:<BR/><BR/><EM>In the spirit of making the discussion of these topics somehow constructive, I would appreciate if the separate issues (like e.g. the arXiv) were discussed on the post about this points</EM><BR/><BR/>Thanks for the links. I will try to read the articles and maybe post something there. Glad to hear we agree on some aspects of arXiv.<BR/><BR/>I am sorry you felt that my Christophe de Dinechinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15212549796119667462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-86134390530073309192007-09-24T00:15:00.000-04:002007-09-24T00:15:00.000-04:00Not sure my very late addition to this thread will...Not sure my very late addition to this thread will mean anything but here it goes:<BR/><BR/>I am a retired prof of physics who have also spent 15 years in the private sector as researcher and product developer. I was also trained and experienced in running organizations as an executive. So I have a somewhat broader view. I am convinced that a solution to the postdoc career situation can be found Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-51702785686822257222007-09-23T21:50:00.000-04:002007-09-23T21:50:00.000-04:00I think I remember one from the APS and one from p...I think I remember one from the APS and one from phds.org, maybe? They all blend together after a while.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-83741910068905045382007-09-23T05:37:00.000-04:002007-09-23T05:37:00.000-04:00I havent read the comments section much (its lengt...I havent read the comments section much (its lengthy), so forgive me if I repeat something.<BR/><BR/>However i'm not really sure its that good of an idea to split that much funding to foundational questions (since its in competition with calculational pragmatic day to day researchers).<BR/><BR/>In my experience, when people (students or tenured faculty) start going down that road their Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-26443287727465627912007-09-23T00:23:00.000-04:002007-09-23T00:23:00.000-04:00amaragraps:I might have exaggerated a bit. After r...amaragraps:<BR/><BR/>I might have exaggerated a bit. After reading your post I re-estimated and it's more like a half million for 5 yrs. But my point remains the same. As long as the total amount of available fund remains the same (and as long as it does not keep up with population growth in science), adjusting the minor detail of funding structure such as extending the duration of a proposal ChickenBreederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02654417966675250243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-63424322750685466912007-09-22T17:23:00.000-04:002007-09-22T17:23:00.000-04:00Hi Aaron:there are already a number of surveys out...Hi Aaron:<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>there are already a number of surveys out there,</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, I know of two, both of which examined postdoc life, not specifically in sciences, and don't really address any of the points I would find important. Would you be so kind to point me towards the ones you have in mind?<BR/><BR/><I>I think the idea of divorcing teaching from research is a nonstarter.</I><BRSabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-58291603871663895912007-09-22T17:14:00.000-04:002007-09-22T17:14:00.000-04:00Hi Bee,(I'm finally responding to old posts....)I'...Hi Bee,<BR/><BR/>(I'm finally responding to old posts....)<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure how much use yet another survey would be. For one, there are already a number of surveys out there, and for another, I'm not sure what information would really be added. I think most people know that being a postdoc is a rather stress-inducing experience.<BR/><BR/>As for solutions, I do find the idea of NSF-like Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-75852490418709534552007-09-22T15:10:00.000-04:002007-09-22T15:10:00.000-04:00Chickenbreeder: Million? You must have higher over...Chickenbreeder: Million? You must have higher overhead than what I'm used to seeing, or extra equipment and or subcontract work. If I extrapolate a typical one researcher 3 year proposal to 5 years, then the total amount is between 300K and 400K. Maybe it sounds like a lot, but it is for five years of, say a 60K salary, and then including all overhead, equipment, meetings, institution benefits, amaragrapshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15769062084934190681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-70994756488716008262007-09-22T11:06:00.000-04:002007-09-22T11:06:00.000-04:00Hi Christine:Thanks for your support. I will keep ...Hi Christine:<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your support. I will keep you updated. My optimism is based on my belief that the scientific community is receptive to rational argumentation considerably more than our society as a whole. If I subtract the background noise that comes from outside the community I have the impression (and this comment section confirms it) that a constructive dialogue is possible Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-15113580634445345962007-09-22T10:15:00.000-04:002007-09-22T10:15:00.000-04:00Hi Bee,You wrote:I just want to add something to y...Hi Bee,<BR/><BR/>You wrote:<BR/><BR/><I>I just want to add something to your last sentence "or whether [an improvement in the system] will really be made, is unknown." Well, everything about the future is unknown (...)</I><BR/><BR/>Yes, of course. Perhaps I should have added "unknown <I>to me</I>" in the sense that, contrary to what you wrote, namely, [that]<BR/><BR/><I>"I think an improvement Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-46718670977112577152007-09-22T09:56:00.000-04:002007-09-22T09:56:00.000-04:00ah, should add: positions can be bound to a certa...ah, should add: positions can be bound to a certain field to begin with. that is to say, a department/institution might not actually have very much freedom with their decision. I don't know how this works in the US, but in Germany this is the dreaded 'Schwerpunktplan' - basically the complete opposite of diversity. If place X does A, then place X has good chances of getting grants for more Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-5479369789089587282007-09-22T09:45:00.000-04:002007-09-22T09:45:00.000-04:00Hi Cecil:But first I would like to understand the ...Hi Cecil:<BR/><BR/><I>But first I would like to understand the role of a being tenured professor. If your are hired as a tenured professor do you sign a contract stipulating that you teach certain classes, publish x number of papers and/or obtain a certain amount of grant money to support grad students? Just curious about the conditions imposed on a tenured professor. Is the professor's salary Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-78722025654569471652007-09-22T01:46:00.000-04:002007-09-22T01:46:00.000-04:00Hi Bee:I have read your blog for some time and rea...Hi Bee:<BR/>I have read your blog for some time and really enjoy it because of the personal feedback about being a research physicist. This thread is very interesting and I will have furher comments later.<BR/><BR/>But first I would like to understand the role of a being tenured professor. If your are hired as a tenured professor do you sign a contract stipulating that you teach certain classes, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com