tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post8813676601617327554..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: RehumanizedSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-20809068653625736742011-08-09T16:51:56.992-04:002011-08-09T16:51:56.992-04:00I have a hard time with the underlying premise tha...I have a hard time with the underlying premise that math and science are somehow overweight in US schools. Most kids take, at least thru grade 10, one math class and one science class. After that things can split between college/noncollege tracks. But that does leave at least 4 or 5 other classes plus gym for 'humanities'Anonymous Snowboarderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13705929076819672791noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-78301670541186913432011-08-09T13:38:39.086-04:002011-08-09T13:38:39.086-04:00Hi Phil,
Thanks for responding. I was thinking of...Hi Phil,<br /><br />Thanks for responding. I was thinking of the classifications people give their schools, and I agree it is arrogant of people to assign any definition to the higher purpose of education other then to expect students can be given tools and information with which will help our youth/ourselves to make the decisions about life, their life. What the student wants to do.<br /><br />PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-70841619455342826882011-08-09T10:51:12.292-04:002011-08-09T10:51:12.292-04:00Hi Bee,
this idea, that the business orientation ...Hi Bee,<br /><br />this idea, that the business orientation in US schools is an important factor sounds true to me. That one cannot run a country only with business oriented people should be clear, so I am wondering about that no-one noticed or is noticing that there.<br /><br />Best, KayKay zum Feldehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04233793196547147876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-61971456779905484192011-08-09T07:02:20.553-04:002011-08-09T07:02:20.553-04:00In Brazil the educational public system is horribl...In Brazil the educational public system is horrible, with very, very few exceptions. There are some excellent, expensive, private schools, though. I studied in one of those from 5 years old to 16 years old (high school), luckly, my mother was able to get a grant for me, otherwise she wouldn't be able to pay it for me. We had geography as a separate discipline since elementary school, the Christine Cordula Dantashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05271747374185459530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-14920309466834703352011-08-09T06:54:31.776-04:002011-08-09T06:54:31.776-04:00Hi Plato,
Generally I think to attempt to draw li...Hi Plato,<br /><br />Generally I think to attempt to draw lines between functions, works or creations of human kind to deem any as not being aspects of humanity is illogical, naive and yet worst of all arrogant. That is all such things reveal truths about our natures related to actions respective of potential. So as far as I’m concerned it comes down to being as simple as what Socrates held asPhil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-2295614338562220202011-08-09T02:02:32.833-04:002011-08-09T02:02:32.833-04:00Hi Kay,
It doesn't seem to me like the issue ...Hi Kay,<br /><br />It doesn't seem to me like the issue is actually with the schools, but with the curriculum. In public schools, teachers cannot freely decide what they teach. I don't know how it is with private schools. In fact, the teachers are often the first to complain about everything that's cut and dropped. Slouka's article also doesn't seem to be aimed at the Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-64419363447847043232011-08-08T20:32:35.825-04:002011-08-08T20:32:35.825-04:00There have been 7 Nobel prize winners from the Bro...There have been 7 Nobel prize winners from the Bronx (high) School of Science, alone, including Hugh David Politzer. We have some excellent schools, most of them private. <br /><br />Here in the northeast USA, where NASCAR is non-existent, the public schools are generally good. They don't beat you over the head with Jesus, and there is NO debate re "Creationism." I can't Steven Colyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10435759210177642257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-51859586547141305692011-08-08T12:44:25.865-04:002011-08-08T12:44:25.865-04:00Martha Nussbaum has thought and published plenty a...Martha Nussbaum has thought and published plenty about democracy, humanities, science and more. (eg: Not for profit)artikcathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13077476175789463520noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-29182025647124151632011-08-08T11:34:08.610-04:002011-08-08T11:34:08.610-04:00Hi Bee,
after reading your experience with the US...Hi Bee,<br /><br />after reading your experience with the US, I came to the conclusion, that the schools in the US are not that good. This doesn't mean, that there is too much teaching math, and other sciences in US schools, right ?<br /><br />best, KayKay zum Feldehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04233793196547147876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-75819058274773334932011-08-08T08:34:32.540-04:002011-08-08T08:34:32.540-04:00Phil:However, when one seriously looks to the capt...<b>Phil</b>:<i>However, when one seriously looks to the captains of industry today we find at the top those such as Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, who stand to exemplify the spirit of the humanities in action, <b>as opposed to what they represent as to being theoretically.</b> </i><br /><br />I think one would have to agree on the basis of a "principle of humanities in action, as maybe more aPlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-50043576546181850412011-08-07T20:11:57.408-04:002011-08-07T20:11:57.408-04:00America's "long running affair with math ...America's "long running affair with math and science"...<br /><br />as GMP said...<br />"The US system puts too much value on math and science? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"<br /><br /> - I really have to agree. It is laughable. <br /><br />I grew up in the United States and found myself transferring school to school because there was no decent math or science education. I was gshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06118701960288541598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-16551209786023765802011-08-07T08:34:15.121-04:002011-08-07T08:34:15.121-04:00Hi Bee,
Sorry, that should have read Captains rat...Hi Bee,<br /><br />Sorry, that should have read Captains rather than Captions of industry, although as both being at the top having them arguably as interchangeable :-)<br /><br />Best,<br /><br />Phil<br /><br />PhilPhil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-31801900382924502402011-08-07T08:14:20.154-04:002011-08-07T08:14:20.154-04:00Hi Bee,
You’re right of course that Slouka centra...Hi Bee,<br /><br />You’re right of course that Slouka central point was not meant so much as to say that scientists are inferior today, as not being versed in the humanities, yet education in general being so as a result and to further implicate its cause as being a wilful conspiracy of commerce promoted through its leadership. However, when one seriously looks to the captions of industry today Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-12947973511070769412011-08-07T08:09:59.468-04:002011-08-07T08:09:59.468-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-85993203085466194172011-08-07T07:05:03.210-04:002011-08-07T07:05:03.210-04:00Hi Phil,
Yes, the role of scientists in the socie...Hi Phil,<br /><br />Yes, the role of scientists in the society is an important point, though not actually what Slouka aimed to address. It is a difficult topic. It also seems to me that it is very difficult to know what that role is today for one never really knows who and what information informed which decision. Best,<br /><br />B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-31213188077111072932011-08-07T05:48:27.390-04:002011-08-07T05:48:27.390-04:00Hi Andrew,
Indeed, central planning may work. But...Hi Andrew,<br /><br />Indeed, central planning may work. But it's extremely unlikely. A system that can adapt has larger chances of success. That isn't to say it will be successful. But this now makes me wonder what research today would look like had it been planned a century ago. Best,<br /><br />B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-20683992759308884852011-08-07T03:19:43.174-04:002011-08-07T03:19:43.174-04:00Hi Christine,
What I find more disturbing is actu...Hi Christine,<br /><br />What I find more disturbing is actually that it's fapp a two party system. Best,<br /><br />B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-9361614441607102522011-08-06T09:22:25.457-04:002011-08-06T09:22:25.457-04:00In some sense the decline of the state can be &quo...In some sense the decline of the state can be "such an religious affiliation" not notice before as contributory sign of the decline of that state? <br /><br />Now, I am referring back to Michael's comment and the understanding of an humanist approach toward looking at politics, democracy, and this possible relation?<br /><br />In some sense even without classification as to being a PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-53160733911998901592011-08-06T09:08:46.958-04:002011-08-06T09:08:46.958-04:00Hi Bee,
I guess so as to give a level field here ...Hi Bee,<br /><br />I guess so as to give a level field here as to terminology it would be good to define <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism" title="Humanism is an approach in study, philosophy, or practice that focuses on human values and concerns." rel="nofollow">Humanism</a><br /><br />So in staying true to the article you are referencing, are you saying that regardless of the PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-81421697899540833202011-08-06T06:53:04.959-04:002011-08-06T06:53:04.959-04:00Freeman Dyson, Missed Opportunities, 1972: "I...Freeman Dyson, Missed Opportunities, 1972: "<i>I am acutely aware of the fact that the marriage between mathematics and physics, which was so enormously fruitful in past centuries, has recently ended in divorce.</i>" <br /><br />In AWT it corresponds the perspective of the interaction of the bubble sitting at the water surface with its neighborhood via surface ripples. For small or Zephirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06010623752049244967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-67103574657483606762011-08-06T06:43:47.570-04:002011-08-06T06:43:47.570-04:00Hi Bee,
Taken together, Slouka makes some bad poi...Hi Bee,<br /><br /><i>Taken together, Slouka makes some bad points and some good points, but he makes both badly. Trying to make a case for the value of good writing, Slouka asks “Could clear writing have some relation to clear thinking?” In reply to which I want to quote Niels Bohr: “Never express yourself more clearly than you are able to think.”</i><br /><br />I find this conclusion of yours Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-40744244855457444812011-08-06T06:42:28.759-04:002011-08-06T06:42:28.759-04:00The point is, the math is not necessary for unders...The point is, the math is not necessary for understanding of reality. On the contrary, I'm facing many situations in contemporary physics, when physicists apparently cannot realize, what their stuff is all about just because they're adhering on their blind formal approach, which is merely a numeric regression of reality. The fact, we can extrapolate some experimental points with Zephirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06010623752049244967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-100062669084256652011-08-06T04:18:10.751-04:002011-08-06T04:18:10.751-04:00Hi Plato,
Well, there's laws for the procedur...Hi Plato,<br /><br />Well, there's laws for the procedures and laws for the values. I'd argue that science has something to say about the procedures, but not about the values. What I mean is that you can for example scientifically study and test how well different voting schemes or institutional organizations work towards fulfilling their purpose. Yet what that purpose is science can'Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-73046224423260793162011-08-06T02:10:54.757-04:002011-08-06T02:10:54.757-04:00Hi Michael,
Sorry, your comment got stuck in the ...Hi Michael,<br /><br />Sorry, your comment got stuck in the spam filter, not sure why. Yes, the question of institutional organization is of course central. Not only in this regard. I'd argue global politics is suffering from our lacking understanding in this point as well. Though there's actually been quite some research done on that, but I doubt much of it actually made it into reality.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-23809737260216338672011-08-06T00:02:12.271-04:002011-08-06T00:02:12.271-04:00Steven,
"[ the A.P.E.S. ] is all about Civics...Steven,<br />"[ the A.P.E.S. ] is all about Civics, and worship of The State over Individuals."<br /><br />Well, you are right to some extent. But if you step back and look at the big picture all biological entities, (cells, proteins etc) form entangled systems which interact with each other non-locally. That just seems to be the way the universe works. It is quantum interaction on Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08213251864943443334noreply@blogger.com