tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post8374232349712488486..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: SpacesSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-72039736008795905302010-09-30T05:58:23.886-04:002010-09-30T05:58:23.886-04:00Hi Kris,
Well first I must say as I’ve remarked t...Hi Kris,<br /><br />Well first I must say as I’ve remarked to Bee, regarding some of the conferences she has attended, how I wished I could have been but just a fly on the wall. Unfortunately as I understand it this one has had its down side as well, with all the controversy respective of Valentini about as to who were permitted to attend or rather what was seen as appropriate to be discussed. I Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-63573439040585531772010-09-29T14:42:24.009-04:002010-09-29T14:42:24.009-04:00Hi Phil,
Yes, it's hard to know exactly where...Hi Phil,<br /><br />Yes, it's hard to know exactly where Einstein stood on many questions. I think most people are unaware how many times he changed his mind on basic principles. He told Bohm he thought his theory was "too cheap," but also told others “If anyone can do it, then it will be Bohm.”<br /><br />(It was Einstein who secretly arranged Bohm's visa and passage to Kris Kroghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07340827856086381459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-65589291516400768492010-09-29T07:02:45.699-04:002010-09-29T07:02:45.699-04:00Hi Kris,
Thanks for the clarification, though I a...Hi Kris,<br /><br />Thanks for the clarification, though I already took it you meant spatial dimension. Then again there still could be a difference between being interchangeable as opposed to indistinguishable when it comes to dimensions, with even Einstein reminding that physical space is what one measures with rods while time with clocks, as to have still distinguished distance from durationPhil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-18490566113330150122010-09-29T06:59:41.181-04:002010-09-29T06:59:41.181-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-53830792750582717902010-09-27T23:51:56.858-04:002010-09-27T23:51:56.858-04:00It All Goes Back to Plato
Tegmark believes in an ...<b>It All Goes Back to Plato</b><br /><br /><i>Tegmark believes in an extreme form of Platonism, the idea that mathematical objects exist in a sort of universe of their own. Imagine that, Tegmark says, “there’s this museum in this Platonic math space that has these mathematical objects that exists outside of space and time,” Tegmark says. “What I’m saying is that their existence is exactly the PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-80615252125801714762010-09-27T17:27:06.861-04:002010-09-27T17:27:06.861-04:00Thanks for the phase space link. GWThanks for the phase space link. GWGWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16309914321843947595noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-28764751838429573012010-09-27T16:58:56.985-04:002010-09-27T16:58:56.985-04:00Bee - what complicates things is, that whether, li...Bee - what complicates things is, that whether, literally, humans can observe the other universes is said to be beside the point, since it's only if their inhabitants can do so there. But even worse, the MUH is saying that each logical structure *is* a world. So any "inhabitants" in the sense of being in a model world with described parameters etc. literally are real and their worldNeil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-58523427805911589612010-09-27T07:30:48.859-04:002010-09-27T07:30:48.859-04:00" The only way for a human being to show that...<i>" The only way for a human being to show that something exists is to observe it in one way or the other. Consequently, it is impossible to distinguish between the possibility that something doesn't exist, and something existing, but being unobservable.”</i><br /><br />As I said in the outset if you restrict this to be a limitation resultant of human capacity or ultimate potential, I Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-51307656576241273522010-09-27T07:14:32.532-04:002010-09-27T07:14:32.532-04:00Hi Phil,
The question under discussion is the fol...Hi Phil,<br /><br />The question under discussion is the following: Will we ever be able to decide whether "all of the multiverse/mathematics really exists" if some of it may be unobservable in principle. Let us leave aside for a moment the question what it means "to exist." The only way for a human being to show that something exists is to observe it in one way or the other. Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-81738133784555735842010-09-27T06:50:38.613-04:002010-09-27T06:50:38.613-04:00Hi Bee,
”How will you ever be able to rule out th...Hi Bee,<br /><br /><i>”How will you ever be able to rule out that something exists, if that something can be something you can't observe?”</i><br /><br />I of course can offer no answer, yet can only say I would contend that the ultimate power of reason should have it able to resolve anything that is reasonable. That is for me observation is but a tool reason incorporates, rather than its Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-89416647528168285672010-09-27T04:12:16.023-04:002010-09-27T04:12:16.023-04:00http://librivox.org/science-and-hypothesis-by-henr...<a href="http://librivox.org/science-and-hypothesis-by-henri-poincare/" rel="nofollow">http://librivox.org/science-and-hypothesis-by-henri-poincare/</a><br /><br />Will have to listen and form my own opinion.<br /><br />Best.PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-62665302281855488942010-09-27T04:05:54.432-04:002010-09-27T04:05:54.432-04:00Hi Kris
it seems there are two opinions, neither...Hi Kris<br /> <br />it seems there are two opinions, neither of them mine, yet, sources have been cited and made clear. Your point made clear, and the opinion you have about that source made clear.<br /><br />You both make an assumption, and for me, I am awestruck, of the movements within that space.<br /><br />Best,PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-17137967278659776262010-09-27T04:02:48.716-04:002010-09-27T04:02:48.716-04:00Err, I meant "rule out that something exists&...Err, I meant "rule out that something exists"Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-89103444508768222642010-09-27T03:56:54.365-04:002010-09-27T03:56:54.365-04:00Phil,
I doubt the question will ever be settled b...Phil,<br /><br />I doubt the question will ever be settled because it cannot be settled in principle. How will you ever be able to rule out that something does not exist, if that something can be something you can't observe? Best,<br /><br />B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-9272649037696198332010-09-27T00:06:35.114-04:002010-09-27T00:06:35.114-04:00Hi Plato,
Let's discuss what you actually pos...Hi Plato,<br /><br />Let's discuss what you actually posted:<br /><br /><i>It is futile to expect one "correct geometry"<br />as is evident in the dispute as to whether elliptical, Euclidean or hyperbolic geometry is the "best" model for our universe. Henri Poincare, in Science and Hypothesis (New York: Dover, 1952, pp. 49-50) expressed it<br />this way.</i><br /><br />&Kris Kroghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07340827856086381459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-54682186424489893242010-09-26T22:38:21.866-04:002010-09-26T22:38:21.866-04:00The restricted problem (both circular and elliptic...<i>The restricted problem (both circular and elliptical) was worked on extensively by many famous mathematicians and physicists, notably Lagrange in the 18th century and Poincaré at the end of the 19th century. Poincaré's work on the restricted three-body problem was the foundation of deterministic chaos theory. In the circular problem, there exist five equilibrium points. Three are collinearPlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-67414697899732109872010-09-26T21:51:49.476-04:002010-09-26T21:51:49.476-04:00Hi Kris
"Bernhard Riemann once claimed: The ...Hi Kris<br /><br />"<i>Bernhard Riemann once claimed: The value of non-Euclidean geometry lies in its ability to liberate us from preconceived ideas in preparation for the time when exploration of physical laws might demand some geometry other than the Euclidean</i>"<br /><br />Is this quote there?<br /> <br /><a href="http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/jmac/sj/sacflaw/sacther.htm" rel="PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-67855388604060276182010-09-26T19:12:29.210-04:002010-09-26T19:12:29.210-04:00Oops. Instead of "bidirectional spatial dire...Oops. Instead of "bidirectional spatial direction" above, that should say "bidirectional spatial dimension."Kris Kroghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07340827856086381459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-56409211086151445132010-09-26T18:47:17.111-04:002010-09-26T18:47:17.111-04:00Hi Phil,
Bell's discussion of special relativ...Hi Phil,<br /><br />Bell's discussion of special relativity that you linked to (from his book <i>Speakable and Unspeakable in Quantum Mechanics</i>) is my favorite too. Like Lorentz before him, Bell was open-minded about which representation of space and time might be correct. (In contrast, Einstein insisted his way was the only possibility.)<br /><br />I think the Lorentz-Poincare Kris Kroghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07340827856086381459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-11904694748264146132010-09-26T18:38:22.146-04:002010-09-26T18:38:22.146-04:00Hi Plato,
Yes, it's easy to see something we ...Hi Plato,<br /><br />Yes, it's easy to see something we expect, even if it's not there. Here's another item, from the quotations section of Kevin Brown's MathPages, which I think applies to space-time curvature and gravity:<br /><br />"Nothing is more dangerous than an idea, when it is the only idea we have." -Alain, 1908<br /><br />In his text, <i>Gravitation and Kris Kroghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07340827856086381459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-65522953465096122962010-09-26T18:25:50.154-04:002010-09-26T18:25:50.154-04:00Hi Neil,
That MathPages section link always works...Hi Neil,<br /><br />That MathPages section link always works for me when I click it. Here's the URL:<br /><br />http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s8-06/8-06.htmKris Kroghhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07340827856086381459noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-81913695073235865352010-09-26T11:13:17.175-04:002010-09-26T11:13:17.175-04:00Hi Bee,
You said: ”I just bring it up occasionall...Hi Bee,<br /><br />You said: <i>”I just bring it up occasionally because it's a recent warm-up of thousand year's old Platonism, so it serves to show people this isn't a settled issue (I doubt it will ever be settled)”</i><br /><br />I would ask if this doubt is rooted in the seeming limitations of the human intellect and resourcefulness or rather feeling that such a question exceeds Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-39151784601438005322010-09-26T09:26:11.121-04:002010-09-26T09:26:11.121-04:00A very nice puzzle Reece, thanks. Give me a coupla...A very nice puzzle Reece, thanks. Give me a coupla days to think about.<br /><br />Well, I can't help thinking about physics and mathematics as language without thinking about what Murray Gell-Mann is up to these days. More on that later as well. As far as I know the oldest known verbal language is Archaic Sumerian. I'm sure there's older ones as Archaic Sumerian surely didn't Steven Colyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10435759210177642257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-13083179944861004092010-09-26T09:23:31.075-04:002010-09-26T09:23:31.075-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Steven Colyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10435759210177642257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-24589729173004619252010-09-26T07:55:50.950-04:002010-09-26T07:55:50.950-04:00Mathematics is most definitely a language, albeit ...Mathematics is most definitely a language, albeit a specialised one like computer programming languages are.<br /><br />Consider: for every pair of elements in a set, performing an operation on those elements results in an element that belongs to the same set.Reece Dunnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17679867226868145259noreply@blogger.com