tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post8313369949092341135..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: Gender-bias in Academia: The Case StrumiaSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger107125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-38735215197988209292018-11-21T06:17:30.524-05:002018-11-21T06:17:30.524-05:00Michael,
I have expressed myself very clearly, it...Michael,<br /><br />I have expressed myself very clearly, it's just that you want to put things into my mouth I didn't say. You also mistakenly seem to think I am under some obligation to respond to your ill-informed and inappropriately aggressive comments. This is not so. <br /><br /><i>"Why the hell should I have to look it up, taking time out of my day when I'm talking to Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-12520288367615417152018-11-21T06:15:36.615-05:002018-11-21T06:15:36.615-05:00And a P.S.:
Why the hell should I have to look i...And a P.S.:<br /><br /> Why the hell should I have to look it up, taking time out of my day when I'm talking to someone who DEFINITELY KNOWS IT. It's not my job to look up possible reasons why your claims might be invalid. <br /><br />--> Sorry, but given that biology is 1.5% (just in recent years, so <1% for the total data set) and medicine is ZERO, there is no need to point this Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04999420273076511316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-70220078242480244462018-11-21T05:38:02.683-05:002018-11-21T05:38:02.683-05:00Hi Michael,
please read through this thread care...Hi Michael, <br /><br />please read through this thread carefully, as I wrote above:<br /><br /> It might help to have a look at the arxive stats to understand how biased inspire vs arxive is: https://arxiv.org/help/stats/2017_by_area/index<br /><br /> I do not see any significant contribution of biology, the largest contributions in recent years are from condensed matter, astro, hep, Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04999420273076511316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-16766869451272220562018-11-21T04:12:12.413-05:002018-11-21T04:12:12.413-05:00@Sabine Hossenfelder You made a claim not me. The...@Sabine Hossenfelder You made a claim not me. The paper share of ArXiv database may not be a secret but it's something that you know that most people don't. Why the hell should I have to look it up, taking time out of my day when I'm talking to someone who DEFINITELY KNOWS IT. It's not my job to look up possible reasons why your claims might be invalid. I've already Michael Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165217176329724686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-79061253147613536352018-11-21T02:19:19.992-05:002018-11-21T02:19:19.992-05:00Michael,
I never said anything about "refuti...Michael,<br /><br />I never said anything about "refuting" - you did. What we did is to look for the same effect in another data set. I showed you the results. And that's that. I am not "denying" anything. The paper share of the arXiv database is no secret, why don't you go and look it up yourself. Speak of "lazy". The last time I looked there wasn't suchSabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-91170945023899325532018-11-20T22:03:10.177-05:002018-11-20T22:03:10.177-05:00@Sabine Hossenfelder a) There is no contradiction...@Sabine Hossenfelder a) There is no contradiction between saying that you cannot confirm something with a dataset and that you can refute it. For instance suppose that you compared violent crime rates at households where the police knew that there was a gun in the house in the last year with other households. The police might well know there is a gun there because of criminal acts by the Michael Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165217176329724686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-63604405413132358742018-11-20T08:08:42.425-05:002018-11-20T08:08:42.425-05:00Of course if you cull the bad results you can impr...Of course if you cull the bad results you can improve the track...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10864326035374866680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-80857495203995776072018-11-20T00:23:17.851-05:002018-11-20T00:23:17.851-05:00Michael,
Your comments are (a) internally incontr...Michael,<br /><br />Your comments are (a) internally incontradictory (first you claim we confirmed Strumia's result, then you claim we cannot confirm it) (b) make false claims (I did not offer an interpretation of the finding -- you did) and (c) wrong (the fraction of biology papers is so small it has an absolutely negligible effect).Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-17400686401479047702018-11-19T18:30:04.407-05:002018-11-19T18:30:04.407-05:00Wait, so you used a dataset that includes BIOLOGY ...Wait, so you used a dataset that includes BIOLOGY and MEDICINE to refute a sample set about high energy physics? Yes you did include that it included sciences outside high energy physics. You did not point out that some of those have a MAJORITY of female Bachelor's degree. If you're not being dishonest you're communicating REALLY badly and allowing people to believe that the Michael Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165217176329724686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-20795717454148938932018-11-19T18:13:44.203-05:002018-11-19T18:13:44.203-05:00Nothing you show here actually disputes Stumia'...Nothing you show here actually disputes Stumia's basic thesis, that the expected results are not what you expect from the mainstream hypothesis. What you've shown is that men and women who don't drop out appear to be treated equally, and the lower representation of women seems to be entirely explained by them dropping out. So unless you can show the dropout rate is due to Michael Pricehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15165217176329724686noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-49609786848466384902018-11-07T09:14:17.843-05:002018-11-07T09:14:17.843-05:00Grace En-Tien Chang;
“It made me wonder, instead ...Grace En-Tien Chang;<br /><br />“<i>It made me wonder, instead of evaluating the stay-ins, whether it would make sense to evaluate citability of the drop-outs by gender. ... If women dropouts were cited more, </i>[than similar men]<i> this would be an indicator that more talented women left the field than men of similar capability. A control for this could be comparing by gender the citations sean s.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04190153587965701495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-4989556953209919502018-11-06T20:07:35.939-05:002018-11-06T20:07:35.939-05:00Sean S. You said: "To test the explanation, ...Sean S. You said: <i> "To test the explanation, we’d need to look only at the first one or two papers of all authors and see how frequently those are cited, especially before later papers are produced. It seems likely that even the best person’s first few papers are rarely cited, or may only be cited after they have produced a larger body of work. <br /><br />A simple explanation is that Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02391550580139535559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-3672533882929721482018-10-22T12:13:29.978-04:002018-10-22T12:13:29.978-04:00I can't stop other people from believing what ...I can't stop other people from believing what they want to believe. Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-91945932574855012972018-10-22T09:43:59.544-04:002018-10-22T09:43:59.544-04:00"I'll tell you more about this once we ha..."I'll tell you more about this once we have a better idea what's going on."<br /><br />As I said, and as you realize yourself, everything that was going on here was unprofessional, including my remarks (I am not a bibliometrics expert). My main point of criticism, however, was that your post created beliefs about claims in the outside world, BEFORE you knew what was going on. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02847775835287165439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-41421039473149966792018-10-20T11:54:28.839-04:002018-10-20T11:54:28.839-04:00JimV,
Thanks, I appreciate the support and also t...JimV,<br /><br />Thanks, I appreciate the support and also the information. Let me clarify though that the arXiv database does differ in important ways from inspire, as I have mentioned: The arXiv hosts (almost) no papers dated prior to 1993 (some people have uploaded older papers, but it's so rare as to not have any statistical relevance) and the arXiv also covers disciplines not on inspire.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-63233038499266093862018-10-20T10:26:16.922-04:002018-10-20T10:26:16.922-04:00I had never heard of INSPIRE until this post. (INS...I had never heard of INSPIRE until this post. (INSPIRE never heard of me either, of course.) From their web page I see this:<br /><br />INSPIRE Project overview<br /><br />CERN, DESY, Fermilab and SLAC have built the next-generation High Energy Physics (HEP) information system, INSPIRE. It combines the successful SPIRES database content, curated at DESY, Fermilab and SLAC, with the Invenio JimVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10198704789965278981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-20925951029526469822018-10-20T04:00:42.749-04:002018-10-20T04:00:42.749-04:00Dr Fleig,
Thinking about this some more, your rec...Dr Fleig,<br /><br />Thinking about this some more, your recent comment shows that you do not have the faintest clue what databases we are even talking about. You come here to complain that the analysis we did supposedly doesn't make sense and that we should instead in the blink of an eye have done something else, and you have no idea what we are even talking about? Wow. Really you should do Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-32188029856646810062018-10-20T03:54:44.645-04:002018-10-20T03:54:44.645-04:00Dr Fleig,
You assume I have a political agenda. I...Dr Fleig,<br /><br />You assume I have a political agenda. I do not know which. Do you even realize that I would benefit if what Strumia claims is correct?<br /><br />You come here to complain about what I wrote even though I was very clear spelling out exactly what we have done and what not. Are you sure that it's not you who is having a political agenda, that agenda being that you want me Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-32154457485464060512018-10-20T03:08:01.889-04:002018-10-20T03:08:01.889-04:00Dr. Hossenfelder,
you wanted to say something abo...Dr. Hossenfelder,<br /><br />you wanted to say something about this because you seem to have a political agenda. Then you create a post that fools many people into believing you have debunked one of Strumia's claims. You yourself realized that that is not the case, after receiving criticism. You didn't make an effort to correct for that. Now you say that restricting to hep-th would give aAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02847775835287165439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-88437740588378611292018-10-19T06:50:17.252-04:002018-10-19T06:50:17.252-04:00Sabine --> exactly the point I was trying to ma...Sabine --> exactly the point I was trying to make!!! Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04999420273076511316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-74958467411190781112018-10-19T06:19:51.301-04:002018-10-19T06:19:51.301-04:00Kaylo,
The arXiv covers more areas than does insp...Kaylo,<br /><br />The arXiv covers more areas than does inspire, but most of these areas have a similarly low number of women as does hep. If there really is an effect as large as Strumia claims, it should show up in the arXiv data too. Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-8498054563066937492018-10-19T05:19:17.919-04:002018-10-19T05:19:17.919-04:00PS. I do not see medicine and bio seems to be abou...PS. I do not see medicine and bio seems to be about 1.5%. Again, this is recent years, cumulative is much less, given hep was 100% of all submissions in the 90s.<br /><br />KayloAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04999420273076511316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-91089241794275009662018-10-19T05:17:21.746-04:002018-10-19T05:17:21.746-04:00It might help to have a look at the arxive stats t...It might help to have a look at the arxive stats to understand how biased inspire vs arxive is: https://arxiv.org/help/stats/2017_by_area/index<br /><br />I do not see any significant contribution of biology, the largest contributions in recent years are from condensed matter, astro, hep, computer science.<br /><br />KayloAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04999420273076511316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-69825504377055432018-10-18T23:42:56.941-04:002018-10-18T23:42:56.941-04:00Dr Fleig,
We didn't look into the distinction...Dr Fleig,<br /><br />We didn't look into the distinction right away because I was traveling, giving several public lectures, indeed I was officially on vacation, and my student was on vacation too. Besides, as I mentioned, I am not actually working on this. I did this voluntarily, literally while on a plane, as a public service. Your complaints are nauseous and reflect very badly on you. You Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-58634987191307513842018-10-18T14:52:19.673-04:002018-10-18T14:52:19.673-04:00@ Hans Fynbo,
quite right, good that you make the ...@ Hans Fynbo,<br />quite right, good that you make the same point as I have already. <br /><br />@ Dr. Hossenfelder: Interesting that you are looking into a distinction of fields in the arXiv data. Why didn't you do so right away? <br />I'd be very curious to learn about the outcome. Want a bet?<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02847775835287165439noreply@blogger.com