tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post7696902816806785367..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: Water is blue ... because water is blueSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger48125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-70948650256008479862009-11-28T06:06:02.868-05:002009-11-28T06:06:02.868-05:00I'm looking for a article for any description ...I'm looking for a article for any description on differences between stretching, asymmetric and symmetric vibrations, ANy help...? Many thanksPoorianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-91185932607115866032009-02-17T17:19:00.000-05:002009-02-17T17:19:00.000-05:00The effect of sky color depends a lot on the viewi...The effect of sky color depends a lot on the viewing angle because of Fresnel reflection. Without Fresnel, water wouldn't look like water.<BR/>Typically there is also some scattering, although I'm not sure if that happens in pure water. And refraction, but I guess that doesn't change the overall color. <BR/>Very nice post and good comments - thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-80560502402257174592009-02-09T18:37:00.000-05:002009-02-09T18:37:00.000-05:00Hello Stefan,Yes, that is what I meant! This pictu...Hello Stefan,<BR/>Yes, that is what I meant! <BR/>This picture of the Water structure <BR/>was already state of the art <BR/>when I studied in the 60/70ties.<BR/>Mainly because it was able to explaine the high mobility of H³O+, being about 10 times higer than the mobility of <BR/>all other "normal" Kations e.g. Na+ ion. <BR/>Again this is due to the same rearrangement of protons along the <BR/>Georghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02538391164351204407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-64014668011226597792009-02-09T16:24:00.000-05:002009-02-09T16:24:00.000-05:00Hi CIP, Georg,thank you for your stimulating comme...Hi CIP, Georg,<BR/><BR/><BR/>thank you for your stimulating comments! I think I start to understand ;-)... Actually, the page <A HREF="http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/microwave.html" REL="nofollow">Water and Microwaves</A> by Martin Chaplin and the references given there are really instructive. <BR/><BR/>So, if I get it right, the dielectric response of water fits quite well to the Debye description stefanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09495628046446378453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-59339240354200817662009-02-07T10:16:00.000-05:002009-02-07T10:16:00.000-05:00Hello CapitalistImperialistPig,ah, You replaced fr...Hello CapitalistImperialistPig,<BR/>ah, You replaced frequency for time!<BR/>This millisecond is plainly wrong.<BR/>The writer himself seems to have noticed the contradictions to the <BR/>facts regarding hydrogen bonding. <BR/>GeorgGeorghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02538391164351204407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-32808917678226486942009-02-07T10:11:00.000-05:002009-02-07T10:11:00.000-05:00I thought I might place a link here to an artistic...I thought I might place a link here to an <A HREF="http://eskesthai.blogspot.com/2009/02/fulleranes.html" REL="nofollow" TITLE="Fulleranes and Allotropes-Saturday, February 07, 2009">artistic interpretation</A> that this science work brought to mind. <BR/><BR/>Can we not be inspired by this true science and it's wonderments? The refraction of light.<BR/><BR/> Reveal that the geometers are trying PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-71944416345651701452009-02-07T09:31:00.000-05:002009-02-07T09:31:00.000-05:00Georg,link hereQuote: "Water molecules i are tiny ...Georg,<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/molecule.html" REL="nofollow">link here</A><BR/><BR/>Quote: "Water molecules i are tiny and V-shaped with molecular formula H2O a and molecular diameter about 2.75 Å.g In the liquid state, in spite of 80% of the electrons being concerned with bonding, the three atoms do not stay together as the hydrogen atoms are constantly exchanging between CapitalistImperialistPighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17523405806602731435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-17150425463498990312009-02-07T06:27:00.000-05:002009-02-07T06:27:00.000-05:00Hello "Capitalist...."did You always watch out whe...Hello "Capitalist...."<BR/>did You always watch out whether <BR/>gas phase or liquid <BR/>water was talked about?<BR/>Where did You read this kHz figure?<BR/>GeorgGeorghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02538391164351204407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-14628218211859690902009-02-07T00:44:00.000-05:002009-02-07T00:44:00.000-05:00Georg,I read your very interesting link on water a...Georg,<BR/><BR/>I read your very interesting link on water absorption, including the microwave absorption part. That latter talked about the role that rotation of the dipole played, but nowhere did I see anything about the proton jumps you speak of.<BR/><BR/>There are two sort of jumpy phenomena of interest, first the protonation deprotonation reaction which does take place along hydrogen bond CapitalistImperialistPighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17523405806602731435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-18028454847810235372009-02-06T15:36:00.000-05:002009-02-06T15:36:00.000-05:00Hello "Capitalist...."Water is special due to that...Hello "Capitalist...."<BR/>Water is special due to that "hydrogen bonding".<BR/>This is a localized and directional bond, inhibiting <BR/>the rotation. <BR/>E.g. here:<BR/>http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/vibrat.html<BR/>"The water molecule has a very small moment of inertia on rotation which gives rise to rich combined vibrational-rotational spectra in the vapor containing tens of thousands to Georghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02538391164351204407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-79193954394953807522009-02-06T13:28:00.000-05:002009-02-06T13:28:00.000-05:00Phil:I’m not as certain as you that Susskind and S...<B>Phil</B>:<I>I’m not as certain as you that Susskind and Smolin have forged a meeting of the minds in the context of the subquantum realm or the nature of time.</I><BR/><BR/>I thought to double check and you might be right <A HREF="http://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/News/In_The_Media/Leonard_Susskind_Joins_PI/" REL="nofollow" TITLE="As an Associate Member, Professor Susskind will spend focused PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-50000121221515120482009-02-06T07:20:00.000-05:002009-02-06T07:20:00.000-05:00Hi Plato,I’m not as certain as you that Susskind a...Hi Plato,<BR/><BR/>I’m not as certain as you that Susskind and Smolin have forged a meeting of the minds in the context of the subquantum realm or the nature of time. I would however agree that when it comes to trusting that the pursuit of physics will ultimately lead us to a unique and revealed truths about our world they would see this commonly.<BR/><BR/>As for selecting books when I find Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-53344485178283999162009-02-05T22:39:00.000-05:002009-02-05T22:39:00.000-05:00Georg - There is no rotation of molecules involved...Georg - <I>There is no rotation of molecules involved in this process. <BR/>The tremendous absrption (k=3 !) <BR/>at about 30 GHz is due to relaxation of orientational polarisation <BR/>in bulk water, where rotation of water molecules <BR/>does not occur.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't think that this is quite right. It's true that from a statistical mechanical point of view the absorption mechanism is CapitalistImperialistPighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17523405806602731435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-68447866838019707202009-02-05T17:41:00.000-05:002009-02-05T17:41:00.000-05:00Hi Phil,That was a very deep and thoughtful commen...Hi Phil,<BR/><BR/>That was a very deep and thoughtful comment. I would most certainly like to try and respond in kind with that standard.:)<BR/><BR/>Not to long ago while standing in the bookstore, I held Susskind's book you reference in my one hand, while in the other, I held "Symmetry and the Beautiful Universe, by Leon M. Lederman with Christopher T. Hill. <BR/><BR/>The Symmetry book won out, PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-19792942966540387912009-02-05T07:11:00.000-05:002009-02-05T07:11:00.000-05:00Hi Plato,Yes as you point out there are proposed a...Hi Plato,<BR/><BR/>Yes as you point out there are <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_biochemistry" REL="nofollow">proposed alternatives</A>to life’s base, yet for many reasons such as its shear abundance and reactivity make it overwhelmingly the best choice. This abundance is sort a counterbalance to the Goldilocks premise, since it would seem to allow life to be formed wherever Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-91922685144865851802009-02-04T15:47:00.000-05:002009-02-04T15:47:00.000-05:00Hello Stefan,a new "Pohl"! This is incredible.Is t...Hello Stefan,<BR/>a new "Pohl"! This is incredible.<BR/>Is there a renaissance for such textbooks?<BR/>For me it was one of the oldfashined<BR/>textbooks with drawings instead of<BR/>photographic pictures (and some more<BR/>oldfashioned things) I loved since my boyhood. (50ty years ago that I first had a Pohl in hands)<BR/>I bought a 19th edition some years ago as a kind of reminiscense.<BR/>Georghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02538391164351204407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-45330505188495158152009-02-04T15:04:00.000-05:002009-02-04T15:04:00.000-05:00Hi Phil, Platothanks for pointing out this "goldil...Hi Phil, Plato<BR/><BR/>thanks for pointing out this "goldilock" phenomenon about the minimum in absorption around at optical frequencies... that's an interesting point of view!<BR/><BR/>Hi Philramble,<BR/><BR/><I>phenomenon that explains why the sky is blue.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't want to be nitpicking, but to avoid confusion - the dominant contribution to the <A HREF="http://stefanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09495628046446378453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-20298357635921255252009-02-04T14:40:00.000-05:002009-02-04T14:40:00.000-05:00Hi Georg,cool, Pohl's classic textbook, that's a n...Hi Georg,<BR/><BR/>cool, Pohl's classic textbook, that's a nice reference, thanks a lot! And you can now even <A HREF="http://books.google.com/books?id=bj1EnQPB0CMC" REL="nofollow">read it online</A>, as there has been a <A HREF="http://www.springer.com/physics/optics/book/978-3-540-23157-8" REL="nofollow">new edition</A>. <BR/><BR/>The plot of the frequency dependence of the dielectric constant stefanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09495628046446378453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-76527482245438843912009-02-04T13:05:00.000-05:002009-02-04T13:05:00.000-05:00Hi Phil,So many excellent informative resources in...Hi Phil,<BR/><BR/>So many excellent informative resources in this blog posting and comment section. Thanks for responding.<BR/><BR/>A point of clarification? <BR/><BR/><I>To our knowledge the intrinsic blueness of water is the only example from nature in which color originates from vibrational transitions.</I><A HREF="http://www.dartmouth.edu/~etrnsfer/water.htm" REL="nofollow" TITLE="WHY IS PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-32901925882498791022009-02-04T08:26:00.000-05:002009-02-04T08:26:00.000-05:00Addendum:The fundamental of C=O vibration is at 17...Addendum:<BR/>The fundamental of C=O vibration <BR/>is at 1700 wavenumbers, of course, <BR/>the 1st harmonic is at 3400.<BR/>GeorgGeorghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02538391164351204407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-45248127530416216412009-02-04T08:11:00.000-05:002009-02-04T08:11:00.000-05:00Hello Stefan,some very "classic" reference for Wat...Hello Stefan,<BR/>some very "classic" reference for <BR/>Water in oscillating electric fields:<BR/>Pohl, R.W. Elektrizitätslehre,<BR/>S 162, 19. Aufl, Springer (1964) <BR/>(Pohls textbook was a kinf of bible for me as a boy :=))<BR/>The extrmly broad absorption is another <BR/>hint to the mechanism. <BR/>Analog processes for other liquids are at much lower frequencies <BR/>(eg Glycerol) or the Georghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02538391164351204407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-22384232142236810092009-02-04T06:40:00.000-05:002009-02-04T06:40:00.000-05:00Hi Plato,“Please explain yourself.”It’s simply if ...Hi Plato,<BR/><BR/>“Please explain yourself.”<BR/><BR/>It’s simply if one takes carbon based life as what one is limited to, that is to have beings like ourselves then if you have <A HREF="http://www.astrophysical.org/starclassification.php" REL="nofollow">a larger sun or a smaller one</A> (star) that will with the former produce more EM in the high band or latter the low band you end up with anyPhil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-44969628847077230292009-02-03T18:45:00.000-05:002009-02-03T18:45:00.000-05:00Hi Michael, and North Sea Anonymous ;-)I have also...Hi Michael, and North Sea Anonymous ;-)<BR/><BR/>I have also noticed the phenomenon of the greenish colour of water in a white bathtub - and with German water that contains not that much chlorine. But then, the water around Frankfurt is very hard... And there was a window in the ceiling, so there mighty have been reflections from the sky. It's probably not so easy to disentangle all the factors stefanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09495628046446378453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-33283859417381734252009-02-03T18:27:00.000-05:002009-02-03T18:27:00.000-05:00Thanks for all the interesting comments!With respe...Thanks for all the interesting comments!<BR/><BR/>With respect to the colour of the ocean, well, I am not sure how big can be the influence of the actual reflection of the sky. But in clear water, I guess it's safe that some light will penetrate the surface, and will be scattered around in the water - hence, it will look blue even without some reflecting white floor.<BR/><BR/>Actually, sediments,stefanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09495628046446378453noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-76499502980139663732009-02-03T18:15:00.000-05:002009-02-03T18:15:00.000-05:00North sea, the problem with bath water is that in ...North sea, the problem with bath water is that in the US at least it is not pure water but filled with chlorine and other *stuff* so a bath tub full of water would not be a very good example.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com