tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post7180471020552364737..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: Science and Democracy IIISabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger77125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-90124671724024055272009-09-18T11:34:40.579-04:002009-09-18T11:34:40.579-04:00Has everyone noticed something?
In every such pos...Has everyone noticed something?<br /> In every such post, Lubos and Bee constantly debate, but the moment someone puts up with "the exp. proof of string theory" Lubo surprisingly vanishes.<br /> He might have studied it a great deal and he might be convinced that it'll turn out to be right, but it's no reason to discard the 100's of other approaches that are 'not even Shivangnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-72452965062338748522007-04-02T12:11:00.000-04:002007-04-02T12:11:00.000-04:00I'm thrilled to be, for once, quotable!However ......I'm thrilled to be, for once, quotable!<BR/><BR/>However ... Lubos is right in the restricted sense that at some point, maybe several decades after the original thought, it should be possible to evaluate work in theoretical physics objectively. We do know, have done for decades, who wins in Einstein-versus-Lenard.<BR/><BR/>But this is much too slow to base funding decisions on!<BR/><BR/>Just how Thomas Denthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16355010444546331416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-68764609949562900582007-03-26T06:40:00.000-04:002007-03-26T06:40:00.000-04:00Dear Bee,Thanks for your reply and for clarifying ...Dear Bee,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your reply and for clarifying your views, I'm glad we are more in agreement than I thought. Unfortunately I'm really pressed for time right now and will have to postpone a proper response for a few days. For what it's worth, i just went back and reread your part II post and will try to frame my response within the framework for addressing these issues that you Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-7478174149844515262007-03-24T16:17:00.000-04:002007-03-24T16:17:00.000-04:00Dear Amused,I finally find the time to answer to y...Dear Amused,<BR/><BR/>I finally find the time to answer to your comment. Part of your disagreement I think is due to a misunderstanding. You write<BR/><BR/><I>I'm actually all in favour of letting market forces determine which research directions and people get supported in physics. The only alternative I see is some kind of central planning, led by a politburo [...] My complaint about the Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-27008744274241234432007-03-23T12:48:00.000-04:002007-03-23T12:48:00.000-04:00I understand now why Lumo is such a big fan of fre...I understand now why Lumo is such a big fan of free market forces. He thinks that by being "agressive" with ad-hominem attacks and "marketing tactics" he can force his way of thinking unto others. Now we all understand he is a true Believer and defender of the Faith (free market and/or string theory). But Nature does not care about his beliefs and convictions. In any case, he really has Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-36938486939938255022007-03-23T11:50:00.000-04:002007-03-23T11:50:00.000-04:00To clarify:The problem is not that we need more ti...To clarify:The problem is not that we need more time for the experiment or more money as Duff suggested by comparing String Th with some other theories where that was the case. <BR/><BR/>It is the fact that String Theory HAS NO PREDICTIONS WHATSOEVER OF ANY KIND<BR/><BR/>best<BR/><BR/>aAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-20873732521174780332007-03-23T11:44:00.000-04:002007-03-23T11:44:00.000-04:00I meant String theoristsaI meant String theorists<BR/><BR/>aAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-80874530011516807562007-03-23T11:43:00.000-04:002007-03-23T11:43:00.000-04:00I see Lubos is convinced there is a conspiracy aga...I see Lubos is convinced there is a conspiracy against String Theory.<BR/><BR/>And btw-String Theory is complete bullshit. The most expensive machine ever built in the history of mankind (LHC) can not verify or falsify not one of String claims.<BR/><BR/>What is the justification then for figure of 97% of jobs for theorists (as Lee said) ?<BR/><BR/>Sorry bee for the choice of words, but I believe Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-78228699514540789042007-03-23T10:44:00.000-04:002007-03-23T10:44:00.000-04:00what Lee thinks is relevant because you are nothin...<I>what Lee thinks is relevant because you are nothing else than a puppet who uncritically reproduces most of the sh*t that he produces that includes the proposals to rape and social-engineer the community - under the leadership of the worst members - as well as is favorite technical crackpot ideas such as deformed special relativity.</I><BR/><BR/>it is very easy to verify that this is complete Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-18084393883698395862007-03-23T10:05:00.000-04:002007-03-23T10:05:00.000-04:00Dear Sabine,what Lee thinks is relevant because yo...Dear Sabine,<BR/><BR/>what Lee thinks is relevant because you are nothing else than a puppet who uncritically reproduces most of the sh*t that he produces that includes the proposals to rape and social-engineer the community - under the leadership of the worst members - as well as is favorite technical crackpot ideas such as deformed special relativity.<BR/><BR/>Of course that groupthink plays a Luboš Motlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17487263983247488359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-36331897441757681552007-03-22T19:39:00.000-04:002007-03-22T19:39:00.000-04:00All I can say is that you must be missing your bro...All I can say is that you must be missing your brothers a lot!<BR/><BR/>Lumos, surely you see, the politer and friendlier Bee is, the less she is treating someone like her brothers. So, surely, that conversation with Peter Woit was a declaration of war! (You just have to study diplomatese :) )Arunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03451666670728177970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-45281223716548425092007-03-22T19:35:00.000-04:002007-03-22T19:35:00.000-04:00Dear Lubos,a) I don't want to discuss what Lee thi...Dear Lubos,<BR/><BR/>a) I don't want to discuss what Lee thinks or maybe doesn't think about his friends or swhatever. I totally fail to see why this is relevant to what I have written in my post.<BR/><BR/>b) I am generally unwilling to pay attention to an alleged quotation without a source. <BR/><BR/>c) Since your main interest seems to be in 'group-think' I am sorry that I have to repeat what ISabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-43261818023831916552007-03-22T19:23:00.000-04:002007-03-22T19:23:00.000-04:00Bee, please don't pretend that you are even more s...Bee, please don't pretend that you are even more stupid than you are.<BR/><BR/>Smolin's quote - that I copied and pasted - is a lie because, as you have agreed, his string theorist friends don't suffer from groupthink while he says they do. Got the pattern?<BR/><BR/>Otherwise I am pretty disgusted by your friendly conversation with Peter Woit.Luboš Motlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17487263983247488359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-68074731057465462852007-03-22T19:15:00.000-04:002007-03-22T19:15:00.000-04:00Hi Lubos,I am not in the mood to browse the whole ...Hi Lubos,<BR/><BR/>I am not in the mood to browse the whole book to find out whether this quotation is correct or not, would you please provide a page? And if possible would you make clear what exactly you think is a lie? I have no reason to doubt that Lee strongly believes in his string theory friends, but that can hardly be the center of your concern?<BR/><BR/>Best,<BR/><BR/>B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-32521716667501729442007-03-22T19:11:00.000-04:002007-03-22T19:11:00.000-04:00Arun, I don't care a single bit whether someone us...Arun, I don't care a single bit whether someone uses expletives. What I care about much more is that certain people keep on spreading outrageous lies that are meant to discredit the basic principles of science and the physics community.Luboš Motlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17487263983247488359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-53771711248169189232007-03-22T19:09:00.000-04:002007-03-22T19:09:00.000-04:00Dear Arun,:-) Sorry, I could not resist. It's just...Dear Arun,<BR/><BR/>:-) Sorry, I could not resist. It's just too much fun. I guess, I just miss my older brothers who'd kick and yell at me all the time.<BR/><BR/>Dear Lubos,<BR/><BR/>I have no idea what you want to prove with that Google search, or why it is relevant whether a 'combination of words' is 'right'. If you like, you can combine all words you want. Just to humor yourself, you could Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-81917645950606697092007-03-22T19:01:00.000-04:002007-03-22T19:01:00.000-04:00OK, fine, so do you agree that the following quote...OK, fine, so do you agree that the following quote from The Trouble with Physics is a vicious lie?<BR/><BR/>"The situation is one in which there are big issues that everyone agrees on but no one feels responsible for.<BR/><BR/>I strongly believe in my string theory friends. I believe that as individuals they are almost all more open-minded and self-critical and less dogmatic than they are en Luboš Motlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17487263983247488359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-47481070343384528872007-03-22T18:57:00.000-04:002007-03-22T18:57:00.000-04:00Thanks for your answer. In the first paragraph you...Thanks for your answer. In the first paragraph you seem to be correcting my perceived error. But it's a deep misunderstanding. I haven't made any error here.<BR/><BR/>I haven't written the word "disease" - incidentally, unlikely you, I would spell it correctly - even though I could have written the word because it is legitimate. Groupthink in science is a social disease.<BR/><BR/>If you think Luboš Motlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17487263983247488359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-55988538105670080792007-03-22T18:55:00.000-04:002007-03-22T18:55:00.000-04:00:)Bee,You should be ashamed of yourself! Here you ...:)<BR/><BR/>Bee,<BR/>You should be ashamed of yourself! Here you are calling a respectable Harvard Prof. all kinds of names! <BR/><BR/>Yes, I know that you didn't use a single expletive, but it is amply clear from what you're written that you've just said all those expletives in different words.<BR/><BR/>Holy Cow! Now there are three or maybe four different Sabines! I'm quite certain that it isArunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03451666670728177970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-50653250304171184122007-03-22T18:39:00.000-04:002007-03-22T18:39:00.000-04:00Let me ask you very clearly. Once you have learned...<I>Let me ask you very clearly. Once you have learned what the word "groupthink" means, do you believe that top people of theoretical physics such as Weinberg, Witten, Seiberg, Maldacena, Strominger, Susskind, Vafa, Arkani-Hamed, Randall, Sundrum suffer from groupthink?</I><BR/><BR/>'Groupthink' in the meaning that you told me you use it is not a desease people 'suffer' from, but a sociological Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-54496295892879074072007-03-22T18:33:00.000-04:002007-03-22T18:33:00.000-04:00Dear Lubos,actually, you were focusing on the esse...Dear Lubos,<BR/><BR/>actually, you were focusing on the essence of what I did not write. I have never pretended the word 'group-think' does not exist or likewise.<BR/><BR/>Since you apparently don't want to discuss about what I wrote, I think we best leave it at this.<BR/> <BR/>Best,<BR/><BR/>B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-14990166772418698832007-03-22T18:32:00.000-04:002007-03-22T18:32:00.000-04:00Let me ask you very clearly. Once you have learned...Let me ask you very clearly. Once you have learned what the word "groupthink" means, do you believe that top people of theoretical physics such as Weinberg, Witten, Seiberg, Maldacena, Strominger, Susskind, Vafa, Arkani-Hamed, Randall, Sundrum suffer from groupthink?<BR/><BR/>Are you ready to give the same answer tomorrow or even in front of Lee Smolin?<BR/><BR/>Best<BR/>LubosLuboš Motlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17487263983247488359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-52571451340695682702007-03-22T18:28:00.000-04:002007-03-22T18:28:00.000-04:00If you think that I have a reputation of misunders...If you think that I have a reputation of misunderstanding others, I am afraid that the explanation is that you talk to scum too frequently.<BR/><BR/>I was focusing on the essence - and the problems with the essence - of what you wrote. You have generated an amazing amount of completely dishonest fake fog, pretending that the word "groupthink" doesn't exist or it is ambiguous, and trying to Luboš Motlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17487263983247488359noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-11411023833040083222007-03-22T18:19:00.000-04:002007-03-22T18:19:00.000-04:00Lubos, I am just clarifying what we talk about bef...Lubos, I am just clarifying what we talk about before we talk about it, since you apparently want to talk about it, and you have an impressive reputation in deliberately misunderstandig others. I apologize if you think this is annoying, but I don't want to waste my time arguing about nothing.<BR/><BR/>I suspect that the standard-English-speaking person that you'd ask on the street would not come Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-72324989691145636242007-03-22T18:07:00.000-04:002007-03-22T18:07:00.000-04:00Dear Bee, what game are you trying to play? What i...Dear Bee, what game are you trying to play? What is your hypothetical alternative meaning of the term "groupthink"? Groupthink always means the very same thing.Luboš Motlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17487263983247488359noreply@blogger.com