tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post6890309658449664116..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: Letter from a reader: “What’s so bad about randomness?”Sabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-47457928234519891222019-01-12T16:03:33.868-05:002019-01-12T16:03:33.868-05:00To Mr. Mason:
Actually, music was not playing as ...To Mr. Mason:<br /><br />Actually, music was not playing as I read Sabine's book. I mostly read it on the train traveling between New York and Connecticut. It made the miles fly by and what seemed like relativistic speeds.<br /><br />DaveDavid Hurwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13362147193417317825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-56210143283312726792019-01-12T09:10:57.400-05:002019-01-12T09:10:57.400-05:00As far as I know there's no natural source of ...<i>As far as I know there's no natural source of pure sine waves, but I could be wrong.</i><br /><br />I file wind as natural. One of my apartments over the years opened onto a back alley that was an Aeolian harp.Ottohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05290441585366899781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-22468872055605215892019-01-12T00:01:38.960-05:002019-01-12T00:01:38.960-05:00Otto wrote: [pure sine waves] sound awfully natura...Otto wrote: [pure sine waves] sound awfully natural to me . . . I suppose there's really no accounting for taste<br /><br />As far as I know there's no natural source of pure sine waves, but I could be wrong. Maybe there is, say, some insect or bird that naturally generates sine waves. So I'll concede that I don't actually know if pure sine waves are unnatural. <br /><br />In any Steven Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140374687362624448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-70767080529417529492019-01-11T05:31:08.500-05:002019-01-11T05:31:08.500-05:00Did you hear about the musicologist whose PhD thes...Did you hear about the musicologist whose PhD thesis title was "The Role of Rock in Rock and Roll" ? Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08363770435343791235noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-52183175382661678452019-01-11T03:45:07.950-05:002019-01-11T03:45:07.950-05:00As you know, pure sine waves sound pretty sterile ...<i>As you know, pure sine waves sound pretty sterile and <b>unnatural</b>.</i><br /><br />O RLY? Maybe it's my experience in Howard Sanndroff's electronic music lab, or having been a shortwave enthusiast, or listening on VHF to lake buoys, or an ancient undergraduate degree in physics, but they sound awfully natural to me. Then again, I suppose there's really no accounting for taste.<Ottohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05290441585366899781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-17327870136020124042019-01-11T01:48:49.454-05:002019-01-11T01:48:49.454-05:00Whereas the ‘open’ string shuts off its far end wi...<i>Whereas the ‘open’ string shuts off its far end with a hard, ‘stiff’ piece of wood, giving a ‘sharp demarcation’, in the case of the ‘stopped’ note this marking-off is done by the ‘soft’, ‘movable’ finger, giving less sharp demarcation.</i><br /><br />Charles Mingus played the fretless bass for a reason, I think. I highly recommend <i>Black Saint and the Sinner Lady</i> for a start, which Ottohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05290441585366899781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-34034468817562206152019-01-10T19:51:09.890-05:002019-01-10T19:51:09.890-05:00David wrote: these are some of the questions that ...David wrote: these are some of the questions that struck me while reading Sabine's splendidly provocative book.<br /><br />Okay, I'll ask: Was music playing in the background as you read Sabine's book? You're a music critic so it's a reasonable question. :-)<br /><br />I *can't* listen to music when I'm reading or working. My attention will always want to go toward theSteven Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140374687362624448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-78370936295490942842019-01-10T19:45:25.538-05:002019-01-10T19:45:25.538-05:00David wrote: There is in fact a type of vibrato pr...David wrote: There is in fact a type of vibrato produced by acoustic beats--mainly on the organ by the Vox Celeste stops.<br /><br />I'll have to look for that on the internet. In jazz, sometimes instruments are tuned as much as a quarter-tone apart, and I generally like the effect. Of course that same tuning can have disastrous effects as anyone who's heard a school band can attest. <br Steven Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140374687362624448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-51067110791122544812019-01-10T10:11:38.933-05:002019-01-10T10:11:38.933-05:00To Mr. Mason:
Yes, perception of vibrato is a ver...To Mr. Mason:<br /><br />Yes, perception of vibrato is a very subjective thing. There is in fact a type of vibrato produced by acoustic beats--mainly on the organ by the Vox Celeste stops. These consist of two ranks of pipes tuned slightly sharp against each other. <br /><br />What interests me here, though, as it applies to Sabine's book, is the fact that in vibrato we have a case where the David Hurwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13362147193417317825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-62659537436394848992019-01-09T16:17:55.816-05:002019-01-09T16:17:55.816-05:00I’ve been listening off-and-on to Schoenberg yeste...I’ve been listening off-and-on to Schoenberg yesterday and today (on Spotify). His works are of many styles and I didn’t find any particularly distasteful. My tastes are eclectic, so I’m already habituated to considering wildly different music.<br /><br />Still struggle with country-western tho’ ...<br /><br />; )<br /><br />sean s.sean s.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04190153587965701495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-84031187839889138012019-01-09T16:08:02.149-05:002019-01-09T16:08:02.149-05:00Axil;
“At the end of this month, a product will b...Axil;<br /><br />“<i>At the end of this month, a product will be introduced to the marketplace that all of science will considered scientifically impossible.</i>”<br /><br />And if this product does not live up to the hype, I’ll be unsurprised. Standing by for the Big Announcement.<br /><br />sean s.sean s.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04190153587965701495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-71812155627842135722019-01-09T13:02:28.546-05:002019-01-09T13:02:28.546-05:00David wrote: I've written about [vibrato] pret...David wrote: I've written about [vibrato] pretty extensively<br /><br />How interesting. I have a tendency to overthink things, but I haven't given much thought to vibrato because it seems so obvious. When I hear a particularly effective use of vibrato, I marvel at how evocative it is. Why do slight variations in pitch seem to affect our mesolimbic dopamine system? I just accept that it Steven Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140374687362624448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-33526793005092071542019-01-09T09:44:26.668-05:002019-01-09T09:44:26.668-05:00To Mr. Mason: I have many favorite pieces by Schoe...To Mr. Mason: I have many favorite pieces by Schoenberg, among them:<br /><br />Pierrot Lunaire<br />Erwartung<br />Five Pieces for Orchestra<br />Variations for Orchestra<br />Piano Concerto<br />Concerto for String Quartet<br />Cello Concerto<br />A Survivor from Warsaw<br />Moses und Aron<br />Serenade<br />Piano Pieces Opp 19 & 23<br />His wonderfully demented arrangement of the Brahms David Hurwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13362147193417317825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-63529759896045105872019-01-09T05:49:57.399-05:002019-01-09T05:49:57.399-05:00What’s so bad about randomness?
I'm sorely te...<i>What’s so bad about randomness?</i><br /><br />I'm sorely tempted to invoke Easley Blackwood in some fashion.Ottohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05290441585366899781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-40498495263937732182019-01-08T22:13:31.134-05:002019-01-08T22:13:31.134-05:00Dave Hurwitz' is letter beautifully composed. ...Dave Hurwitz' is letter beautifully composed. What a marvelous bit of writing.k-froehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00094359559385410658noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-65029326420614425842019-01-08T21:30:35.380-05:002019-01-08T21:30:35.380-05:00The premise of this thread is that out-of-the-box ...The premise of this thread is that out-of-the-box thinking is highly desirable but is antithetical to both current scientific and systematic aesthetic judgments. Be careful what you wish for; you just might get it. At this current juncture, where is out-of-the-box thinking primarily happening? As witnessed by countless YouTube presentations, there are thousands upon thousands of vagabond Axilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07190120527431077518noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-34304104160167820192019-01-08T14:01:03.119-05:002019-01-08T14:01:03.119-05:00David wrote: Schoenberg's music has that poten...David wrote: Schoenberg's music has that potential once you get to know it.<br /><br />I hope that the skeptics here will accept your point.<br /><br />It's funny: In another discussion someone said that scientists were being corrupted by the Templeton Foundation. In this discussion, there seems to be a suggestion that musicologists are being corrupted by Schoenberg and are misleading theSteven Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140374687362624448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-11825986039985023862019-01-08T13:44:03.406-05:002019-01-08T13:44:03.406-05:00Phillip wrote: the only art involved is the art of...Phillip wrote: the only art involved is the art of convincing people that their products are actually worth (in any sense) anything.<br /><br />Listen to Half-Wolf Dances Mad in Moonlight by modernist and minimalist composer Terry Riley and tell me it doesn't move you and blow your mind. There are other ways to get high besides drugs. :-)Steven Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140374687362624448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-10187277865908399242019-01-08T13:20:42.129-05:002019-01-08T13:20:42.129-05:00Phillip wrote: For the record (geddit?), I'm n...Phillip wrote: For the record (geddit?), I'm not a fan of Zappa's music, but have respect for him as a musician (and as a person).<br /><br />For the CD, I'm not a fan of Zappa's music either. <br /><br />I don't know enough about Zappa to say I respect him. I read that he was a very difficult man to get along with. I also read that he didn't care much for The Beatles and Steven Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140374687362624448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-3341926989819984752019-01-08T12:55:33.554-05:002019-01-08T12:55:33.554-05:00"Those who know don't have the words to t..."Those who know don't have the words to tell<br />And the ones with the words don't know too well."<br />~Bruce Cockburn,<br />~"Burden Of The Angel/Beast",<br />~<i>Dart to the Heart</i> (1994)<br /><br />As for knowledge increasing beauty, certainly it increases appreciation.Wyrd Smythehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06694506351266400927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-43289896626539013002019-01-08T12:48:12.647-05:002019-01-08T12:48:12.647-05:00Ira wrote: Shoenberg sounds ugly, no matter how yo...Ira wrote: Shoenberg sounds ugly, no matter how you try to rationalize it. Academic musicologists like it the same way academic physicists like being lost in math.<br /><br />In music, I don't tell anyone that what they find beautiful is ugly, or what they find ugly is beautiful, as if there is some kind of objective standard. And it's downright wrong to suggest that Schoenberg can be Steven Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140374687362624448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-27370581721738289982019-01-08T12:25:10.786-05:002019-01-08T12:25:10.786-05:00sshawnuff wrote: Rather step back to Pythagoras
G...sshawnuff wrote: Rather step back to Pythagoras<br /><br />Good point and great example of how people got lost in math trying to create beautiful models for music. <br /><br />The math for music is beautiful in some parts and messy in other parts. When I first learned this I remember feeling disappointed that music wasn't perfect, that it had some kind of defect. Maybe the entire universe hasSteven Masonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05140374687362624448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-79584156729661852012019-01-08T10:15:05.987-05:002019-01-08T10:15:05.987-05:00After reading this letter I was looking on the Arx...After reading this letter I was looking on the Arxiv for a paper I read some years ago on the relationship between sequences of dyads and triads with orbifolds. I read this in <i>Science</i> around 10 years ago. I tried looking it up to find the author named something like Tiniencho, at MIT as I recall. Anyway there are a number of papers I ran across on this type of subject.<br /><br />Music by Lawrence Crowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12090839464038445335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-77087785075929310202019-01-08T09:32:42.483-05:002019-01-08T09:32:42.483-05:00To Mr. Shor:
First, many thanks to Sabine for pos...To Mr. Shor:<br /><br />First, many thanks to Sabine for posting my email, and to everyone who has responded to it. Regarding Schoenberg and the questions posed: I would hesitate to call atonal or twelve-tone (serial) composition a "theory." As it applies to individual works, it is a technique, a tool, and I believe I can say safely that no piece of music (or work of art in general) David Hurwitzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13362147193417317825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-36618407628834204672019-01-08T09:12:19.949-05:002019-01-08T09:12:19.949-05:00So now I'm curious about Arnold Schönberg'...So now I'm curious about Arnold Schönberg's music. Listening to it on Spotify now ...<br /><br />sean s.sean s.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04190153587965701495noreply@blogger.com