tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post5908879043210312236..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: Learning to Be ThoughtlessSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-41508543158163239302008-06-06T21:16:00.000-04:002008-06-06T21:16:00.000-04:00Hi Nige,I am really sorry to hear about your unple...Hi Nige,<BR/><BR/>I am really sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience. However, it makes me wonder whether the situation would have occurred this way weren't it that the letter had been thought to be confidential. Possibly, the person writing it meant to do you a favor, or maybe was confused or just generally not particularly good in his assessment of other persons. In the former case, he Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-11691461381639824912008-06-06T16:50:00.000-04:002008-06-06T16:50:00.000-04:00I disagree that transparency is necessarily a good...I disagree that transparency is necessarily a good thing.<BR/><BR/>The one reference about me I have ever seen was extremely embarrassing. I had some problems after being read the reference about me which was to be sent to three universities when I was 18 and wanting to read physics (under the UCCAs application scheme at that time you could apply for a choice of three). It was written by Father nigehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03402194253543690982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-9444143508627393392008-06-05T23:00:00.000-04:002008-06-05T23:00:00.000-04:00Hi Bee,Another nicely written post on an interesti...Hi Bee,<BR/><BR/>Another nicely written post on an interesting and yet seldom thought about subject, no pun intended (well perhaps a little). What I particularly liked was the related paper since I have to admit I haven’t explored or contemplated the social graces from the scientific viewpoint often. <BR/><BR/>What stood out for me in this paper more then anything else was the effects of the Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-72262411397797813392008-06-05T22:00:00.000-04:002008-06-05T22:00:00.000-04:00Bee,A question mark always supposes a place from w...Bee,<BR/><BR/>A question mark always supposes a place from which one may embark?:)<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>Q and A's are usually drafted for a reason</I><BR/><BR/>A way, to arrive at a definition, and explanation of such letters and how they are written.<BR/><BR/>It was meant to suggest, that while such negatives are meet, they are also meant to keeping open to the full use of any suggestions. Keep on PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-32806408636029910272008-06-05T18:56:00.000-04:002008-06-05T18:56:00.000-04:00Ha, the Italian Casanova drops in! Tommaso, I assu...Ha, the Italian Casanova drops in! Tommaso, I assure you none of the letters I came across contained the words brilliant or well-read, and I know more people deep down than high up. Besides this, what's important would be those people know me not the other way round. In fact, some of what I read gave me something to think about. Anyway, it's my nose that's nosy, my hands are handy ;-) Best,<BR/><Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-39638206838368938852008-06-05T17:29:00.000-04:002008-06-05T17:29:00.000-04:00Bee, you are not a representative sample of the su...Bee, you are not a representative sample of the subject of reference letters. By no means. You are brilliant, skilled, well-read, you know people high up; you are even attractive. No wonder you get good letters!<BR/><BR/>I am sure the letters you got to read did not kill you, besides: there is a clear selection bias there. You probably did not manage to put your nosy hands on those very few that Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-29113717972455863542008-06-05T15:49:00.000-04:002008-06-05T15:49:00.000-04:00Hi Riemannζ,One would think the conclusion sh...Hi Riemannζ,<BR/><BR/>One would think the conclusion should then be that open criticism is worthwhile. Yes, I too guess that part of this is due to cultural norms (see e.g. <A HREF="http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2008/05/hello-from-germany.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>). It seems to me that feedback you get from Germans when asked is often more honest, which Americans will easily consider Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-14884191161405278492008-06-05T15:28:00.000-04:002008-06-05T15:28:00.000-04:00Hi Rillian,Explains some of why it's so hard to ch...Hi Rillian,<BR/><BR/><I>Explains some of why it's so hard to change a social norm, even when most people agree it's a bad idea.</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah, unfortunately they didn't add a recipe how to kick people out of their thoughtlessness.<BR/><BR/><I>The lack of transparency reinforces the power associated with ones position in the hierarchy.</I><BR/><BR/>Right. Another reason to get rid of it. This Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-58445174440221929972008-06-05T15:23:00.000-04:002008-06-05T15:23:00.000-04:00Hi PlatoQ and A's are usually drafted for a reason...Hi Plato<BR/><BR/><I>Q and A's are usually drafted for a reason?</I><BR/><BR/>If this is supposed to say I did not answer a question you were asking, then the reason is that I did not notice there was a question addressed at me. You have the habit of ending statements with a question mark, which leaves me wondering a) is this a question? b) if so, is it a rhetorical question or does it require anSabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-83230716062469125692008-06-05T14:41:00.000-04:002008-06-05T14:41:00.000-04:00Bee,The fact that physical violence seems like an ...Bee,<BR/><BR/>The fact that physical violence seems like an exaggeration may in fact be an example of the way that social norms tend to weaken as the reasons for them start to fade from memory and are not rearticulated.<BR/><BR/>Some of the people who sailed to the colonies in the U.S. (and many of their ancestors) had been subject to physical violence for the expression of their negative views Michael F. Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15279501532684851571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-52096370032705806622008-06-05T14:14:00.000-04:002008-06-05T14:14:00.000-04:00Way cool article. Explains some of why it's so har...Way cool article. Explains some of why it's so hard to change a social norm, even when most people agree it's a bad idea.<BR/><BR/>In addition to what riemannzeta said, I've always felt the confidentiality of letters also had a class component. A letter of recommendation is a credential furnished by one person to another about the quality of a third person who is generally lower in the hierarchy,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-87179498694426138552008-06-05T13:36:00.000-04:002008-06-05T13:36:00.000-04:00Q and A's are usually drafted for a reason?:)<B>Q</B> and <B>A's</B> are usually drafted for a reason?:)PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-26003764445261110122008-06-05T13:21:00.000-04:002008-06-05T13:21:00.000-04:00I like the idea of having a journal devoted to neg...I like the idea of having a journal devoted to negative results. It is true that one learns a lot out of failed approaches. I always find it stupid if everybody has to do the same thing to arrive at the conclusion that it doesn't work. It would also erase a lot of pseudoscience if people could look up why their great idea doesn't make sense.<BR/><BR/>I think 'violent conflicts' is quite an Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-31409686911210738792008-06-05T13:09:00.000-04:002008-06-05T13:09:00.000-04:00Bee,I completely agree that it's not the most effi...Bee,<BR/><BR/>I completely agree that it's not the most efficient cultural norm from the point of view of encouraging learning, especially by the prospective employee.<BR/><BR/>The problem is that there are other competing values that the cultural norm of letter writing has to meet, especially the avoidance of violent conflicts. Although in an ideal world, everybody would be ready to say Michael F. Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15279501532684851571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-5704312669089782122008-06-05T13:07:00.000-04:002008-06-05T13:07:00.000-04:00Hi Plato,That wasn't the point. It's not that I wa...Hi Plato,<BR/><BR/>That wasn't the point. It's not that I want so urgently to see my own letters, I just think this letter-collecting business has in some areas grown out of proportion. If so much attention is paid to letters, it signals to me that people in hiring committees don't have the courage to judge on their own (or don't have the time, or maybe are just not able to, who knows). What doesSabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-65040032509909905812008-06-05T13:00:00.000-04:002008-06-05T13:00:00.000-04:00otherwise most letter-writers would temper their c...<I>otherwise most letter-writers would temper their criticism too much</I><BR/><BR/>That's a social norm as well. Criticism isn't personal, we all have to live with evaluations of our work. There's ways to do it, and ways not to. What good it is to criticise if the person who is criticised doesn't know about it? How are you supposed to learn about your strengths and weaknesses?Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-79161488416034506812008-06-05T12:54:00.000-04:002008-06-05T12:54:00.000-04:00The reason that they should be confidential is bec...The reason that they should be confidential is because otherwise most letter-writers would temper their criticism too much, and make the whole exercise a less valuable source of information for prospective employers.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the link to the paper though. I too have been very interested in understanding why the <I>reason</I> behind certain cultural norms (of which I include accountingMichael F. Martinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15279501532684851571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-26196201540046235132008-06-05T12:49:00.000-04:002008-06-05T12:49:00.000-04:00You are describing an extra potential use of "Inve...You are describing an extra potential use of "Inverse Square law" as it has never before been seen?:)<BR/><BR/>If this is to be the case, then you had to see the relationship of GR in ways that had never been thought possible?:)<BR/><BR/>Also, you had to know there is a <A HREF="http://www.oecd.org/document/4/0,2340,en_2649_34135_2672772_1_1_1_1,00.html" REL="nofollow">ethical standard about PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.com