tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post5211233518942783360..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: SecretsSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-72124769448667761792011-01-28T06:29:55.824-05:002011-01-28T06:29:55.824-05:00Hi Holermann,
ich hab mich wohl missverstaendlich...Hi Holermann,<br /><br />ich hab mich wohl missverstaendlich ausgedrueckt, drum versuche ich es noch einmal: Kommentare zum Thema sind willkommen, den Rest kannst Du Dir sparen. Es ist mir vollkommen wurscht ob irgendeinem Holermann gefaellt worueber ich auf meinem Blog schreibe. Vielleicht solltest Du Dir das mal zu Herzen nehmen, was Du da gerade zitiert hast. Weitere Kommentare, die nicht zum Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-67406863817069812122011-01-27T12:35:47.005-05:002011-01-27T12:35:47.005-05:00Liebe Bee,
hab' gestern was vergessen:
Mein ...Liebe Bee,<br /><br />hab' gestern was vergessen:<br /><br />Mein Eindruck von dir ist ausserdem auch, dass du sehr liebevoll und engagiert bist - sonst hätt' ich mir ja gar nicht die Mühe gemacht, nach all den Jahren (las schon lange mit) überhaupt was zu schreiben; mir fällt das gar nicht so leicht, könnte kein blog führen.<br /><br />> deine sog "Kritik" ist komplett Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-19826560490425690672011-01-27T02:28:11.410-05:002011-01-27T02:28:11.410-05:00Hi Holermann,
deine sog "Kritik" ist ko...Hi Holermann,<br /><br />deine sog "Kritik" ist komplett inhaltslos und ausserdem nicht zum Thema. Tschuess,<br /><br />B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-660021825710689482011-01-26T20:33:49.262-05:002011-01-26T20:33:49.262-05:00Liebe Bee,
schreibe auf deutsch, weil das an dich...Liebe Bee,<br /><br />schreibe auf deutsch, weil das an dich gerichtet ist.<br /><br />Dieser Artikel ist ein hervorragendes Beispiel dafür, warum ich aufgehört habe, dein Blog zu lesen.<br />Er klingt sehr gescheit, ist leider das Gegenteil und dabei völlig irrelevant.<br /><br />Du hast 1. keine Ahnung, wovon du da überhaupt redest, siehst 2. den Wald vor lauter Bäumen nicht und merkst das 3. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-66220097270519308642011-01-26T18:01:11.499-05:002011-01-26T18:01:11.499-05:00pjmclach, I'm suspicious of claims that govern...pjmclach, I'm suspicious of claims that governments can't have (or have "accepted" as) rights, especially if other organized entities like corporations (note irony that such entities are authorized by governments anyway to effectively exist as legal pseudopersons with some rights like persons and with limited liability etc.) And aside from the metaphysical issue of whether they Neil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-8603514767549037562011-01-26T17:23:02.200-05:002011-01-26T17:23:02.200-05:00I think it's worth mentioning that privacy is ...I think it's worth mentioning that privacy is a right of individuals, and companies made up of invested individuals and not of governments.pjmclachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16564345526313503210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-41928145288250762392011-01-26T15:20:32.689-05:002011-01-26T15:20:32.689-05:00As for the content, I was just questioning why mat...<i>As for the content, I was just questioning why math should be especially free while others compete.</i><br /><br />Oh OK, thanks for clearing that up. <br /><br />Well I'm not sure how many different ways I can put this, but one basic difference between Math and the Sciences is that Math is a language. A theorem is not a theory, although they sound similar. Theorems are proven facts; Steven Colyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10435759210177642257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-80336517691043356652011-01-26T11:54:35.059-05:002011-01-26T11:54:35.059-05:00Steven, if I re-punctuate that sentence of mine:
P...Steven, if I re-punctuate that sentence of mine:<br /><i>PS good first comment there, by Steven Coyler,</i><br />then it shows I meant yours was the first comment at all, and happened to come from you; rather than your first comment of several. As for the content, I was just questioning why math should be especially free while others compete. It takes work to do math too, even if not as much techNeil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-19769503278400114832011-01-26T08:06:18.510-05:002011-01-26T08:06:18.510-05:00As is usual, Neil always provides great food for t...As is usual, Neil always provides great food for thought. Neil writes:<br /><br /><i>PS good first comment there by Steven Coyler,</i><br /><br />?! Thanks, I think. So what was my second comment? Chopped liver? ;-)<br /><br /><i> ... except ... </i><br /><br />Uh oh ...<br /><br /><i>I don't see why the same argument about experiments shouldn't apply to mathematicians wanting to get Steven Colyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10435759210177642257noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-88935136797908127342011-01-26T06:17:04.685-05:002011-01-26T06:17:04.685-05:00Hi Jakub,
"I believe that government funded ...Hi Jakub,<br /><br /><i>"I believe that government funded research should never be kept secret "</i><br /><br />What about military applications? Also, as I argued in my post, it's a matter of timing. I would agree that as long as it's not a matter of national safety, research funded by public sources should be made public - eventually. I wouldn't even tie this to the Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-19100749525569605852011-01-26T06:16:30.799-05:002011-01-26T06:16:30.799-05:00Hi Bee,
I’m glad you liked it and as I suggested ...Hi Bee,<br /><br />I’m glad you liked it and as I suggested with my earlier comment that even at the very fundamental heart of nature the necessity for secrecy might play a role. The interesting thing is to a large degree this is something which physics itself is attempting to get a handle on; so you might say what you do at least in part is to understand secrecy.<br /><br />Best,<br /><br />Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-56993110887848860702011-01-26T06:16:17.172-05:002011-01-26T06:16:17.172-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-89978404015000990902011-01-26T06:06:39.868-05:002011-01-26T06:06:39.868-05:00Hi Phil,
That's a nice example. Yes, secrecy ...Hi Phil,<br /><br />That's a nice example. Yes, secrecy is abundant in nature. Best,<br /><br />B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-38095443741205972352011-01-26T05:38:37.003-05:002011-01-26T05:38:37.003-05:00Hi Bee,
The fact is secrecy is everywhere in the ...Hi Bee,<br /><br />The fact is secrecy is everywhere in the world and the only thing that differentiates is the purpose it serves. For example the key you use to get into your home or start your car is a projection of secrecy, which is to protect you from those with bad intentions, while the same devise (locks) can equally keep information from us which is detrimental. The same thing occurs at Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-9826640753232650432011-01-26T04:32:38.960-05:002011-01-26T04:32:38.960-05:00Hi Hitchhiker,
Sure. As I said, there's no ea...Hi Hitchhiker,<br /><br />Sure. As I said, there's no easy answers. Leaking secrets is sometimes a good thing and competition is sometimes a bad thing, and sometimes it's the other way round. If nothing else, Wikileaks has shown that governments have too many unnecessary secrets. I was just saying arguments from ideology have a tendency to move towards the oversimplified extreme, where Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-20278687050600126962011-01-26T04:25:33.709-05:002011-01-26T04:25:33.709-05:00Hi Zephir, Cody,
I personally certainly prefer co...Hi Zephir, Cody,<br /><br />I personally certainly prefer collaboration over competition, so excuse me for playing devil's advocate here. I think the case you're making in favor of collaboration is very weak. Show me evidence that collaboration without competition indeed results in more benefits for the society, and what sort of values would the society need to have - I suspect they have Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-82742194681016171092011-01-25T23:42:42.424-05:002011-01-25T23:42:42.424-05:00Uncle Al said:
"When government, finance, ind...Uncle Al said:<br />"When government, finance, industry, education... hide incompetence and criminality behind privacy, that is malice. Public malice is fair game for Assange et al. Make the bastards bleed."<br /><br />Agree completely. I tend to find the arguments for secrecy made so far as pretty obvious and uncontentious. What is dangerous is when you try to lump secrecy derived and Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08213251864943443334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-90479459445679411152011-01-25T20:14:21.826-05:002011-01-25T20:14:21.826-05:00Bee, thanks again for another thoughtful, "ce...Bee, thanks again for another thoughtful, "centrist" essay about the basic issues that doesn't degenerate into being cliché tripe from the "usual suspects." I'd like to see these in Newsweek (well, too long), the Economist etc. Send it to Obama, seriously, even though that sounds like artful cuteness. (Someone there would look at something from "scientist who alsoNeil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-45804157496567982072011-01-25T15:07:39.445-05:002011-01-25T15:07:39.445-05:00Has anyone else seen the similarity between Wikile...Has anyone else seen the similarity between Wikileaks and climategate? In both cases publicly funded people are upset that their allegedly private communication was leaked to the media.Thomas Larssonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15985129937633673870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-23806634164315838192011-01-25T12:44:09.378-05:002011-01-25T12:44:09.378-05:00"then" = "rather than", etc......"then" = "rather than", etc...Zephirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06010623752049244967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-31704684226157112462011-01-25T12:41:06.932-05:002011-01-25T12:41:06.932-05:00>That's not obvious to me, please explain. ...>That's not obvious to me, please explain. ... we'd save by not reinventing wheels<br /><br />Coda actually said it all. <br /><br />Forced competition is good, because we have no better option, how to force people into altruistic cooperation - but this situation is far from ideal because of its apparent redundancy. <br /><br />For example, we have an OpenSource movement in the area ofZephirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06010623752049244967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-62747893169035822872011-01-25T12:11:03.246-05:002011-01-25T12:11:03.246-05:00Thanks for the response Bee, this has me thinking ...Thanks for the response Bee, this has me thinking that the main difference is in whether people think of themselves as competing with one another, or with nature, or some other non-human opponent. So (since I want to move in that direction) I need to popularize the concept that we aren't playing a zero-sum game.<br /><br />I'm realizing too that we have a high degree of collaboration on codyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11407919985914326282noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-61469785334302364292011-01-25T10:41:03.969-05:002011-01-25T10:41:03.969-05:00Hi Zephir,
"It's evident, the society ba...Hi Zephir,<br /><br /><i>"It's evident, the society based on free cooperation would be more ideal in terms of its economical effectiveness."</i><br /><br />That's not obvious to me, please explain. Best,<br /><br />B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-26555865402516927452011-01-25T09:46:33.988-05:002011-01-25T09:46:33.988-05:00The society based on free competetion is the most ...The society based on free competetion is the most effective under the situation, when all members are motivated to compete honestly. Unfortunatelly, this is just an ideal too - in praxis we need for every free trader some arbiter (usually governmental officer, who is opened for corruption), who is guarding the rules of free trade, i.e. this cooperation isn't free (laissez faire) in any way, Zephirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06010623752049244967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-6865825879821724502011-01-25T08:57:54.264-05:002011-01-25T08:57:54.264-05:00Hi Zephir,
As I wrote, I also think that the amou...Hi Zephir,<br /><br />As I wrote, I also think that the amount of secrecy that a society deems necessary tells you something about this society. Leaving aside that we don't live in an ideal society, and in our non-ideal society some amount of secrecy is necessary, I also don't think that a society without secrets is necessarily ideal. To begin with, this raises the question who says whatSabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.com