tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post3558775181136238952..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: Trickle DownSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-57774720803611325822008-11-10T02:48:00.000-05:002008-11-10T02:48:00.000-05:00Again for the group effort.People must suffer cons...Again for the group effort.<BR/><BR/><I>People must suffer consequences of poor decisions, grade school to life itself, or they need not make good decisions.</I><BR/><BR/>The significance of the insurance plan pointed out by Phil is one that helps to "orientate some perspective about investment into the home for one's future." Equity built on the inflationary cost rising over the years based on PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-23908599850437051832008-11-10T02:15:00.000-05:002008-11-10T02:15:00.000-05:00Evolving the group effort?In mainstream economics,...Evolving the group effort?<BR/><BR/><I>In mainstream economics, <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation#Causes_of_deflation" REL="nofollow" TITLE="Cause of Deflation">deflation</A> is caused by a combination of the supply and demand for goods and the supply and demand for money, specifically the supply of (demand for) money going down (up) and the supply of (demand for) goods going up (PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-23111418637041292272008-11-09T20:59:00.000-05:002008-11-09T20:59:00.000-05:00Hi Neil',Ah, sorry, I wasn't aware it's become a p...Hi Neil',<BR/><BR/>Ah, sorry, I wasn't aware it's become a phrase for something. I agree with what Imam said above. Whether or not that works depends on tradition, culture, social values. I must have said it previously many times, there are no panaceas that will work globally. I am not sure however one can generally say in advance in which country under what circumstances it does work. Here as inSabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-72156930518503911312008-11-09T20:56:00.000-05:002008-11-09T20:56:00.000-05:00I should remind that the 'trickle down' ideology a...I should remind that the 'trickle down' ideology and the kind of capitalism that has resulted is overwhelmingly a phenomenon of the USA. The rest of the G8 countries did not follow that ideology - not UK and certainly not Canada. (UK, however, come closest to America's brand of capitalism but under a different ideology branding.)<BR/><BR/>Trickle down has run it's course and is being abandoned. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-17766686635564973112008-11-09T20:55:00.000-05:002008-11-09T20:55:00.000-05:00Hi Imam,Oh, I have nothing against people who like...Hi Imam,<BR/><BR/>Oh, I have nothing against people who like to buy crap, or produce crap for that matter. If it makes them happy, or makes other people happy, so be it. I am not asking for any 'meaning' beyond that. Neither do I say consumerism is necessarily a bad thing. One might ask every once in a while whether the increase in happiness is indeed still present, but that's another question. ISabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-52181753963777953552008-11-09T20:50:00.000-05:002008-11-09T20:50:00.000-05:00Bee said: "Open an average magazine and try to tel...Bee said: "Open an average magazine and try to tell me that it's not trying to change your behavior into buying more crap."<BR/><BR/>I think you ought to be careful here. It's all too easy for intellectuals to dismiss "consumerism" as people buying silly "crap" that they don't "need", because they need to fill some vacuum in their lives blah blah blah. What we tend to forget is that our research Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-9368110296304624852008-11-09T20:40:00.000-05:002008-11-09T20:40:00.000-05:00"It means trying to uplift the lower and middle cl..."It means trying to uplift the lower and middle classes with adequate minimum wages, social security that is really secure, universal medical care, etc. - and let that promote the best overall per capita GNP etc., "<BR/><BR/>This has been tried. It doesn't work, except in extremely disciplined and homogeneous societies, where for example people feel ashamed to be seen as parasites. It might work Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-9594581280381913542008-11-09T20:25:00.000-05:002008-11-09T20:25:00.000-05:00Hi Bee, "trickle-up" has become a catch phrase for...Hi Bee, "trickle-up" has become a catch phrase for the opposite of trickle-down. It means trying to uplift the lower and middle classes with adequate minimum wages, social security that is really secure, universal medical care, etc. - and let that promote the best overall per capita GNP etc., instead of trying to help or even promote the rich and then hoping the results leak down onto the others.Neil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-13574923697331564102008-11-09T15:19:00.000-05:002008-11-09T15:19:00.000-05:00Hi Bee,As I sit here swilling a high energy bevera...Hi Bee,<BR/><BR/>As I sit here swilling a high energy beverage, eating my third bag of chips, while desperately looking for my Viagra prescription renewal I was unaware that capitalism is what I should give the total credit for all these wonderful things I simply couldn’t live without. That is since all along I thought human nature as it relates to weakness should also at the very least be givenPhil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-24568545047936363152008-11-09T14:44:00.000-05:002008-11-09T14:44:00.000-05:00Uncle Al, as most other people, like to forget tha...Uncle Al, as most other people, like to forget that capitalism itself provides the best and most abundant examples for social engineering. Open an average magazine and try to tell me that it's not trying to change your behavior into buying more crap.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-56965669690704111832008-11-09T14:18:00.000-05:002008-11-09T14:18:00.000-05:00Hi Uncle Al,Although I would agree economic Darwin...Hi Uncle Al,<BR/><BR/>Although I would agree economic Darwinism would guarantee that only the species most adapted by the process of chance to survive, it lends little solace as your argument leaves me unconvinced it will necessarily be our own. I’d rather think that being conscious in our case extends further then to being only ‘self’ aware.<BR/><BR/>Best,<BR/><BR/>PhilPhil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-52568323345256691112008-11-09T14:12:00.000-05:002008-11-09T14:12:00.000-05:00Hi Uncle,It is pointless to say something works wi...Hi Uncle,<BR/><BR/>It is pointless to say something works without specifying towards what goal it is supposed to work. Best,<BR/><BR/>B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-75935264208288570542008-11-09T14:06:00.000-05:002008-11-09T14:06:00.000-05:00As massive engines of remunerative inequity crash ...As massive engines of remunerative inequity crash abusers see their perfidious bloated wealth massively uncreate. Let them crash.<BR/><BR/>Capitalism works. Intervention does not, ditto social engineering. Price and cost must couple. People must suffer consequences of poor decisions, grade school to life itself, or they need not make good decisions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-29089246105323766942008-11-09T13:54:00.000-05:002008-11-09T13:54:00.000-05:00Hi Anonymous,“Liquidity Trap”There is a old saying...Hi Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>“Liquidity Trap”<BR/><BR/>There is a old saying that goes ” if you borrow a little money from a bank you are in its debt, if it is a lot of money they become your partner”.<BR/><BR/>The same can be said between the types of relationships banks have with government. In Canada for instance to become a Chartered Bank can happen only as the result of an act of parliament, Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-33485661562737805012008-11-09T12:22:00.000-05:002008-11-09T12:22:00.000-05:00Hi Anonymous,“The Consumer Price Index has no bear...Hi Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>“The Consumer Price Index has no bearing?”<BR/><BR/>First, as to have things made clear I’m not an Economist and what I say should be taken as being offered as only opinion. The index you mention however which at its root attempts to express the value of things in a relative fashion rather then an intrinsic way. The fact is within a free market economy things are only Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-83312251561038787362008-11-09T12:21:00.000-05:002008-11-09T12:21:00.000-05:00Liquidity TrapInjection of cash by government deva...<A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquidity_trap" REL="nofollow">Liquidity Trap</A><BR/><BR/>Injection of cash by government devalues dollar. Was done to prevent deflation?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-47685245808183961832008-11-09T11:59:00.000-05:002008-11-09T11:59:00.000-05:00Hi PhilThe Consumer Price Index has no bearing?Hi Phil<BR/>The <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_price_index" REL="nofollow" TITLE="Consumer Price Index">Consumer Price Index</A> has no bearing?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-47593814856836502302008-11-09T09:33:00.000-05:002008-11-09T09:33:00.000-05:00Hi Anonymous,The issue now is trust and insurance ...Hi Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>The issue now is trust and insurance equates with assurance which manifests trust. As I said with the second part being to illuminate unjustified speculation, which when not realized causes many to renege on their own promise to the lender or forms to be their sole reason for buying a home in the first place. It is true that many want a home to call their own, yet is it Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-1397467502765273272008-11-09T09:19:00.000-05:002008-11-09T09:19:00.000-05:00Phil,CHMCYes I woud agree with you as to the the m...Phil,<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/co/moloin/moloin_010.cfm" REL="nofollow" TITLE="Canada Mortgage and Housing">CHMC</A><BR/><BR/>Yes I woud agree with you as to the the mortgage issues and insurance, but is this the real issue, or is there some underlying cause for this economic downturn that we have ignored or were not aware of??<BR/><BR/>Best,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-28358842457019106082008-11-09T08:00:00.000-05:002008-11-09T08:00:00.000-05:00Hi Bee,Despite the fact that many recognize that t...Hi Bee,<BR/><BR/>Despite the fact that many recognize that this lack of trust is at the heart of our current problems, most are not prepared to take action to do much as to attempt restore it. The banks still refuse to lend, the Bulls have retracted their horns to expose the teeth of Bears and consumers are curtailing their spending. I find this to be similar to when players who are losing at a Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-77462455201612726442008-11-08T19:14:00.000-05:002008-11-08T19:14:00.000-05:00Hi Neil,I think we've seen enough trickle-up. How ...Hi Neil,<BR/><BR/>I think we've seen enough trickle-up. How do you think all the managers with the high bonuses got rich? Their job is to distribute and invest capital to spur innovation and progress. That's what they get paid for. Not only did they a miserable job, they got incredibly rich with doing a miserable job. All that is money that is not there for the people who actually do the hard Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-35810123405746280072008-11-08T16:12:00.000-05:002008-11-08T16:12:00.000-05:00What we need is trickle-up economics. The people ...What we need is trickle-up economics. The people must demand it, they won't get it otherwise even with Obama at the helm of the USA. I'll let anyone debate just what that should consist of.Neil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.com