tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post2198988460846812104..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: BioFuelSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger123125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-71955013243627336152008-07-01T14:32:00.000-04:002008-07-01T14:32:00.000-04:00you are little behind with biofuel resuch. You do ...you are little behind with biofuel resuch. You do not say any thing 2nd gen biofuel. You do not know any thing about gasfiers. a gasfier can turn grasses and other soild biofuels into gases that can be use to fuel ICE engine. If grow stwich grass about 2.5 acres with prdouce engouh fuel to fuel a full size pick up for a year if the pick aves about 2000 miles per mouth. Anther method is grow tall Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-89990753074602064192008-06-11T15:08:00.000-04:002008-06-11T15:08:00.000-04:00Hi Phil, Hi Arun,Yes, that's the question. You've ...Hi Phil, Hi Arun,<BR/><BR/>Yes, that's the question. You've expressed that more clearly than I managed to. I understand why Carl wants to include the byproducts - they are some sort of energy, but I still don't see how that matters for the question of whether the farm produces more fuel than it needs to run. Best,<BR/><BR/>B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-40778957500397105522008-06-11T15:03:00.000-04:002008-06-11T15:03:00.000-04:00Bee's question a different way - let us suppose I ...Bee's question a different way - let us suppose I have land, corn, animals, ethanol-producing machinery and ethanol-using machinery. I have enough ethanol for running the farm and the ethanol production for one season. I have no wood, oil, coal or other energy source. <BR/><BR/>At the end of the season, do I end up with more ethanol than I started out with?Arunhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03451666670728177970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-37541860052934868732008-06-11T12:26:00.000-04:002008-06-11T12:26:00.000-04:00Phil,"Dependency" is admitting you were sleeping, ...Phil,<BR/><BR/>"Dependency" is admitting you were sleeping, and/or taking drugs.<BR/><BR/> Admission of such a dependency is the first step.:)<BR/><BR/>It's true, we can go on an on here, and I will continue to show, that such innovation to producing other means of fuel production does not resolve the ultimate objection to carbon foot printing as you say, but more the realism, that by attacking aPlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-64280350062281429702008-06-11T07:31:00.000-04:002008-06-11T07:31:00.000-04:00Hi Carl,Despite my reading of all the back and for...Hi Carl,<BR/><BR/>Despite my reading of all the back and forth exchange between you Bee and others and yet there is something that has not yet become clear to me. This is most likely a fault on my part resultant of not being able to follow all that you and others have said; so therefore excuse this rather straight forward and perhaps what might be considered silly question. <BR/><BR/>The questionPhil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-61133887347301726152008-06-11T07:05:00.000-04:002008-06-11T07:05:00.000-04:00Hi Plato,“So while only 10% at the price paid from...Hi Plato,<BR/><BR/>“So while only 10% at the price paid from the suppliers, and not the inflated price you pay when you buy the gallon of gas. It would serve the "benefit of change" that the cost of fuel "go down with this additive" and not being sold at the price of a gallon of gas produced versus, the cost of the ethanol in production.”<BR/><BR/>“IN the "interest of philosophy" I have supplied Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-44379624555220408872008-06-11T02:42:00.000-04:002008-06-11T02:42:00.000-04:00PhilTherefore , philosophy must first be consisten...<B>Phil</B><I>Therefore , philosophy must first be consistent if is it also to be considered relevant.</I><BR/><BR/>While some might of thought I'm out to change the world too, it was just making one aware of "a method by which they could change the pricing system" and bring more value to the use of ethanol in all gasoline products at 10%. <BR/><BR/>It seems to run efficiently when I use it?<BR/PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-89047971212262346192008-06-11T00:21:00.000-04:002008-06-11T00:21:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-2513103171344275612008-06-10T23:22:00.000-04:002008-06-10T23:22:00.000-04:00Hi Plato,“IN this case, I am your "Glaucon by Prox...Hi Plato,<BR/><BR/>“IN this case, I am your "Glaucon by Proxy":)”<BR/><BR/>“I would rather be at home in the minds of people, showing, that while sleeping or taking drugs, that a infrastructure has now with a "qualitative value" to the current system, been challenged.”<BR/><BR/>Yet don’t you remember your namesake’s words when choices such as these are presented, for in the Allegory of the Cave Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-24863457760447860792008-06-10T20:15:00.000-04:002008-06-10T20:15:00.000-04:00Hi Bee,“If I have finalized my plans to save the w...Hi Bee,<BR/><BR/>“If I have finalized my plans to save the world, the readers of this blog will be first to know ;-) Communication is probably a good starting point.”<BR/><BR/>I didn’t know you were working on one! Now that I’m aware I’m more convinced the before I should set this as my home page:-)<BR/><BR/>Best,<BR/><BR/>PhilPhil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-39860832710572001972008-06-10T20:07:00.000-04:002008-06-10T20:07:00.000-04:00If I have finalized my plans to save the world, th...If I have finalized my plans to save the world, the readers of this blog will be first to know ;-) Communication is probably a good starting point.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-22819366896360549012008-06-10T20:06:00.000-04:002008-06-10T20:06:00.000-04:00Hi Christine,“BTW, I'm tired of hearing that other...Hi Christine,<BR/><BR/>“BTW, I'm tired of hearing that other countries are "concerned about the Amazon forest". These countries have already destroyed most of their own natural reserves. Now what? They want to tell *us* what do to with *our* reserves?”<BR/><BR/>Yes, they are essentially the same group that insists and enforces that no additional nations are to develop and deploy nuclear weapons, Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-69700083139895550022008-06-10T20:05:00.000-04:002008-06-10T20:05:00.000-04:00Yeah... how do we achieve this?Yeah... how do we achieve this?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-70133535755755335742008-06-10T19:49:00.000-04:002008-06-10T19:49:00.000-04:00If we all had the same rights that would already b...If we all had the same rights that would already be quite something.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-19843778673063192482008-06-10T19:48:00.000-04:002008-06-10T19:48:00.000-04:00Yes, Bee, but nationalism is something that people...Yes, Bee, but nationalism is something that people turn on and off according to immediate arguments and needs.<BR/><BR/>In any case, we all have to live on the same planet <I>with the same rights</I>.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-68643240953267020162008-06-10T19:34:00.000-04:002008-06-10T19:34:00.000-04:00Regreening of EuropeWe all have to live on the sam...<A HREF="http://backreaction.blogspot.com/2007/12/treehugging.html" REL="nofollow">Regreening of Europe</A><BR/><BR/>We all have to live on the same planet.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-59118015843346544832008-06-10T19:30:00.000-04:002008-06-10T19:30:00.000-04:00Wow, 105 comments, I can't read them all. I apolog...Wow, 105 comments, I can't read them all. I apologize if this has been already mentioned: the ethanol production in Brazil comes from sugar cane, not from corn. It produces eight times more energy per pound than corn, if I'm not mistaken. Brazil is a huge tropical country with plenty of space to have large productions of sugar cane.<BR/><BR/>Concerning the rainforest: there is no intention of Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-20545962541591145552008-06-10T19:27:00.000-04:002008-06-10T19:27:00.000-04:00Hi Carl,How a free market would deal with the situ...Hi Carl,<BR/><BR/>How a free market would deal with the situation is a completely different question. I did not say it is going to happen that we will end up with loads of cattle food. What I said was to figure out whether or not a corn farm produces excess fuel that flows back into the society and thus lowers dependencies on oil export, forget about the cattle food and assume it is useless, e.g.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-7817672298555630032008-06-10T17:50:00.000-04:002008-06-10T17:50:00.000-04:00Bee writes: "The best way to see this is to ask yo...Bee writes: "The best way to see this is to ask yourself whether it makes sense to start another biofuel farm if you already have all the cattle-food you can possibly ever feed to all the cattle around, and you really don't need any more of that stuff."<BR/><BR/>Let's say our first farm is 30 thousand acres and it produces 3 million bushels of corn per year. We suppose that this is just exactly CarlBrannenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17180079098492232258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-38328515817894573132008-06-10T16:16:00.000-04:002008-06-10T16:16:00.000-04:00Hi Carl,No, no no. The animal feed reduces the eco...Hi Carl,<BR/><BR/><I>No, no no. The animal feed reduces the economic (and energetic) costs of the input corn by substitution. I see that you want to analyze the calculation from a land use point of view.</I><BR/><BR/>No, land use isn't the point either. Sorry to be insistent, but I still dont get it:<BR/><BR/>I understand that the production of animal feed is energy of some sort and thus makes Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-57108560653999277102008-06-10T10:33:00.000-04:002008-06-10T10:33:00.000-04:00Phil,IN this case, I am your "Glaucon by Proxy":)I...Phil,<BR/><BR/>IN this case, I am your "Glaucon by Proxy":)<BR/><BR/>I would rather be at home in the minds of people, showing, that while sleeping or taking drugs, that a infrastructure has now with a "qualitative value" to the current system, been challenged. <BR/><BR/>Ask your government that while they already taxed this commodity(gas), why it is that alternative fuels should cost so much PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-18201565876785472382008-06-10T06:47:00.000-04:002008-06-10T06:47:00.000-04:00Hi Plato,“These to me are non distinctive boundari...Hi Plato,<BR/><BR/>“These to me are non distinctive boundaries to selection of a "world government" that guarantees rights and freedoms to it's populations.”<BR/><BR/>So I will take your answer to be no, as its fair to say that if I were to mail you something you would still prefer it read something like:<BR/><BR/>Mr. Plato<BR/>1234 Somewhere Place<BR/>Noneofit, Canada<BR/>N0T 2B1<BR/><BR/>For mePhil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-76083914869006446032008-06-10T06:43:00.000-04:002008-06-10T06:43:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Phil Warnellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15671311338712852659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-14492942763996911012008-06-10T02:45:00.000-04:002008-06-10T02:45:00.000-04:00If so, bring an amendment to the people to ratify ...<I>If so, bring an amendment to the people to ratify this change - but until then it is still the law, no? </I><BR/><BR/>A game of numbers? A game of war?<BR/><BR/>How eloquent the speech to direction, not only the opposition, but the reigning party itself to see the light? Democratic processes allow for a time and place for such rhetoric. <BR/><BR/>While on the outside, and from a European, or PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-58825933600129621342008-06-10T01:32:00.000-04:002008-06-10T01:32:00.000-04:00Anonymous Snowboarder: "Carl: Why does the US impo...Anonymous Snowboarder: "Carl: Why does the US import soybeans from Brazil if we are having record exports?"<BR/><BR/>The record is in total exports, not soybeans per se. The US exports a heck of a lot more soybeans then it imports. <A HREF="http://www.ers.usda.gov/briefing/soybeansoilcrops/2008baseline.htm" REL="nofollow">See the USDA figures here along with projections.</A><BR/><BR/>Honestly, I CarlBrannenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17180079098492232258noreply@blogger.com