tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post1451510871354260581..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: Every Now and ThenSabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-77404545419499181342008-05-09T01:55:00.000-04:002008-05-09T01:55:00.000-04:00Plato:” Quite the biographical sketch”I apologize ...Plato:” Quite the biographical sketch”<BR/><BR/>I apologize for that, but I want you to know every Now and Then and not only small piece of it.<BR/><BR/>And now we are talking about undetermined future.<BR/><BR/>Plato:” I am a student, yet, we live "experience" and underneath the realities, the math you talk about.”<BR/><BR/>I talk to you, Bee and young generation of Castalians above the heads ofAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-51985357964394716012008-05-09T00:26:00.000-04:002008-05-09T00:26:00.000-04:00Quite the biographical sketch Dany. I am impressed...Quite the biographical sketch Dany. I am impressed:)<BR/><BR/>regards,PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-70966652882324426602008-05-08T14:24:00.000-04:002008-05-08T14:24:00.000-04:00Hi Plato,Plato: “Dany if ones need the "castle wal...Hi Plato,<BR/><BR/>Plato: “Dany if ones need the "castle walls" in which to feel "safe" then that is what they need... What kind of life is that to be afraid of venturing into the world, and then, be told that you should act a certain way... I do not accept your or Ned's perspective, and would not like to share that with those we want to venture further. Further, then the previous cultures had.”<Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-54767964290376752982008-05-08T13:20:00.000-04:002008-05-08T13:20:00.000-04:00BTW, to amplify what I've said before: I think tha...BTW, to amplify what I've said before: I think that saying, "time isn't real" is sort of (and maybe ironically) like saying, "Lorentz contraction isn't real." Well, there is a given, proper length invariant in its own way, but the contracted lengths are indeed "real" in relative terms. That's the sort of world we live in.Neil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-55553372360315150722008-05-08T13:16:00.000-04:002008-05-08T13:16:00.000-04:00Dany, I actually do want to hear any detailed thou...Dany, I actually do want to hear any detailed thoughts you might have on why the weak-measurement idea (that we can measure the rough "shape" of a wavefunction, not just find standard probabilities for collapse into either of the pair of orthogonal eigenstate we have in play) would be false. I suppose Yakir has his counterarguments too?<BR/>txNeil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-27737528259970443182008-05-08T10:17:00.000-04:002008-05-08T10:17:00.000-04:00Dany,At least you recognize the association of the...Dany,<BR/><BR/>At least you recognize the association of the "back reaction" and now, using it to point to Ned, wonderful:)<BR/><BR/>Dany:<I>I suggest to you to read carefully Ned comment 8:34 p.m., May 04. I find it very deep.</I><BR/><BR/>Okay, now in back reaction mode.:)<BR/><BR/><B>Ned</B>:<I>So better stay with physics and don't try to really get to the root of things, whatever that might PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-35524349738248630392008-05-08T01:54:00.000-04:002008-05-08T01:54:00.000-04:00“Who said we can’t remember dreams or that they do...“Who said we can’t remember dreams or that they do not exist?”<BR/><BR/>I was playing with words and had in mind J.B.Hartle quant-ph/0610131.<BR/><BR/>Plato:”Those Dany who do not dare venture farther then the waking reality. It is of a subjective nature, and again what is the blog for, if this is not for science at it's best, but to share other ideas that do not fit?”<BR/><BR/>Sure, but I have Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-9783054747439236852008-05-07T21:05:00.000-04:002008-05-07T21:05:00.000-04:00Plato: I don't know much about "scheme" per se, if...Plato: I don't know much about "scheme" per se, if you are talking about the mathematical issue e.g. in Wikipedia. I don't however see a literal block producing even an experience or "illusion" (what a cop-out IMHO) of flowing time. But the idea of objectifying the universe into an unconditioned "way it is" just doesn't cut it for me. The nature of reality is literally relative, it is different Neil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-52923715305073101282008-05-07T19:03:00.000-04:002008-05-07T19:03:00.000-04:00Dany:We don’t need all that speculations. Just sit...<B>Dany</B>:<I>We don’t need all that speculations. Just sit down and write math of that without human brain and without consciousness.</I><BR/><BR/>Yes Dany, I know what is required.<BR/><BR/> But they are more then speculations, even while they are subjective to you. I am speaking of something I do know.:)<BR/><BR/>I am a student, yet, we live "experience" and underneath the realities, the mathPlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-50030188563829309702008-05-07T15:40:00.000-04:002008-05-07T15:40:00.000-04:00Hi Bee,Bee:”We all eagerly assume there exist peop...Hi Bee,<BR/><BR/>Bee:”We all eagerly assume there exist people, somewhere, who unlike ourselves do have a grip on the bedrock reality that underlies our societies, who understand how things work and will take care of us if severe problems arise”.<BR/><BR/>Today is our Independence Day. Each one of us contributes anonymously and according to his knowledge and ability. Don’t worry, we know our job Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-79948323085889858642008-05-07T15:31:00.000-04:002008-05-07T15:31:00.000-04:00Neil':”we can't figure out what happens to it when...Neil':”we can't figure out what happens to it when a measurement occurs”<BR/><BR/>That is off-topic here. If Bee will start separate discussion about that I promise to explain what the problem is and what the preliminary solution is.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Neil’:” if you read his papers on weak measurements you will note that distinguished physicist Aharanov (one of the team in that very AB effect you Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-28871547294747909962008-05-07T12:57:00.000-04:002008-05-07T12:57:00.000-04:00So Neil, what does the "scheme represent" in terms...So Neil, what does the "<A HREF="http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=scheme+and+wikipedia&btnG=Google+Search&meta=" REL="nofollow">scheme represent</A>" in terms of the computational, the mathematical sense, in relation to consciousness? <BR/><BR/>If link above does not work, do search on "scheme and wikipedia"<BR/><BR/>Currently there is no organ that represents the <A HREF="http://bp1.PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-50642108028088645962008-05-07T11:52:00.000-04:002008-05-07T11:52:00.000-04:00x: Physics can't just be doing math, because it ne...x: Physics can't just be doing math, because it needs to connect to something. Eq. f = ma is just algebra and could have been m = fa^3 or anything, it's understanding "f", "m" and "a" that makes it physics. Physicists have to use philosophical style reasoning to state what they are referring to, how to interpret experiments etc. If you look at the arguments supporting decoherence, they have to Neil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-53415355420554616782008-05-07T04:44:00.000-04:002008-05-07T04:44:00.000-04:00Hi Serenus,But if there is no arrow of time, nothi...Hi Serenus,<BR/><BR/><I>But if there is no arrow of time, nothing ever happens, so you would not be able to determine whether a given memory was fading away or not!</I><BR/><BR/>Notwithstanding the question whether in such a case intelligent beings could develop or whether one could convincingly speak of 'thinking' I believe you are are understanding 'fading' as necessarily being directed Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-26798524705245725952008-05-07T03:50:00.000-04:002008-05-07T03:50:00.000-04:00Serenus Zeitblom:” if there were no arrow of time ...Serenus Zeitblom:” if there were no arrow of time at all then certainly we would not exist”<BR/><BR/>Sure, the question is who is right: Einstein, Rietz or both?<BR/><BR/>Neil':”I think Yakir Aharonov is right and we can measure the WF, my own newest explanation will appear soon at my linked-out blog. But that isn't the orthodoxy.”<BR/><BR/>Yakir is wrong. The statement contradict AB phenomenon Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-57117975054594115692008-05-07T00:09:00.000-04:002008-05-07T00:09:00.000-04:00Bee said:No, I don't have a post on the arrow of t...Bee said:<BR/>No, I don't have a post on the arrow of time. I'll keep it in the back of my head, but since I haven't quite made up my mind about the topic, I'm reluctant to write about it <BR/><BR/>That's not a good reason to refrain from writing about it! :-)<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Only from what I wrote above I see no reason why it should not be possible to have a 'now' without an arrow of time (Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-90154262291163340532008-05-06T16:13:00.000-04:002008-05-06T16:13:00.000-04:00Ned:” A physicist (*) is travelling in a bus.”Loca...Ned:” A physicist (*) is travelling in a bus.”<BR/><BR/>Local variation:”D.L. is traveling in a car on highway and receive call from his friend. “D. be careful, it was reported on radio it is out there a mishigener traveling in the wrong direction.” “Big deal. I see here thousands of these.”<BR/><BR/>Regards, Dany.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-21631889219459479872008-05-06T15:42:00.000-04:002008-05-06T15:42:00.000-04:00Hi Neil, thanks for your response. Yes, if you wan...Hi Neil, thanks for your response. Yes, if you want to want to get into a discussion of what the wavefunction actually is (a "real" thing? Or just a mathematical tool we can use to solve real-life problems) then you open up the usual can of worms, and that's really beyond the scope of Bee's article. Maybe Bee might want to write about that subject at some point.<BR/><BR/>I was really just trying Andrew Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03852211910001840777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-3887970251455142572008-05-06T11:54:00.000-04:002008-05-06T11:54:00.000-04:00Anonymous Garrett said... Please refer to my f...<B>Anonymous Garrett said...</B><BR/><BR/> <I>Please refer to my future comment on this topic.</I><BR/><BR/>Look at the E8 process and what are we to learn of it's developmental process and all that it impart to E8.<BR/><BR/>If you knew all the probability of actions of the future in regards to E8, then it is connected through your statement now? :) This is important in relation to Marcus PlatoHagelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00849253658526056393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-53031194179431993392008-05-06T11:32:00.000-04:002008-05-06T11:32:00.000-04:00To better clarify; a revised sentence:That's what ...To better clarify; a revised sentence:<BR/><BR/>That's what we do with the mathematical representation [of a wavefunction] when we work with it [in a modeling exercise], that doesn't mean we can find the shape of [an actual wave in the real world.]Neil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-6465802611394560492008-05-06T11:28:00.000-04:002008-05-06T11:28:00.000-04:00Andrew, deeper reflection upon the problem of the ...Andrew, deeper reflection upon the problem of the wave function shows it is more problematical than it seems. Simplistically, "given" a WF it does evolve deterministically until it collapses. However, in what sense is it "given" for us? That's what we do with the mathematical representation when we work with it, that doesn't mean we can find the shape of the wave. Indeed, we are not supposed to Neil Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04564859009749481136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-23656568279605989922008-05-06T11:09:00.000-04:002008-05-06T11:09:00.000-04:00Yeah. Thanks for mentioning Jim, I didn't know tha...Yeah. Thanks for mentioning Jim, I didn't know that work of his, will give it a look. Best,<BR/><BR/>B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-13418449815108468952008-05-06T11:08:00.000-04:002008-05-06T11:08:00.000-04:00Yeah, you're right. I always thought James Hartle'...Yeah, you're right. I always thought James Hartle's idea was rather obvious, so I wondered why there was quite such a fuss about it. I'm sure it would be obvious to any computer programmer (as opposed to physicist) that the brain is likely to process information and store it in memory like that.Andrew Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03852211910001840777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-73167989056781816942008-05-06T11:02:00.000-04:002008-05-06T11:02:00.000-04:00Hi Andrew,Yes, the Rietdijk-Putnam argument is als...Hi Andrew,<BR/><BR/>Yes, the Rietdijk-Putnam argument is also mentioned in the article by Pevkov. <BR/><BR/>I didn't consider anything of what I said new or original, it's too obvious for that. <BR/><BR/>Best,<BR/><BR/>B.Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-52095992826211399222008-05-06T10:57:00.000-04:002008-05-06T10:57:00.000-04:00Paul Davies's superb Scientific American article c...Paul Davies's superb <EM>Scientific American</EM> article called <A HREF="http://www.ipod.org.uk/reality/reality_mysterious_flow.asp" REL="nofollow">That Mysterious Flow</A> tells you basically everything you might ever want to know about the block universe.<BR/><BR/>The main argument in favour of the block universe (as some have suggested) comes from special relativity and is called the <A HREFAndrew Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03852211910001840777noreply@blogger.com