tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post1090291106855174473..comments2023-09-27T07:44:19.769-04:00Comments on Sabine Hossenfelder: Backreaction: What's up with the Ozone Layer? Sabine Hossenfelderhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-86558454818513342102021-03-05T13:05:44.108-05:002021-03-05T13:05:44.108-05:00Back in the 80's the old frig in my apartment ...Back in the 80's the old frig in my apartment used the banned CFC's, but if memory serves couldn't operate on the replacement chemical that wasn't as harmful to the ozone layer. When this refrigerant started running low the technician I contacted had a supply of the old CFC and was able to recharge it. I've long since moved from that apartment, but I would imagine the David Schroederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048116250413347228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-40993543677498328542021-03-02T00:40:17.600-05:002021-03-02T00:40:17.600-05:00Started as such, true, but ended with a spot-on wa...Started as such, true, but ended with a spot-on warning about our hubris. Implicitly hubris in general I gather, even though explicitly in regard to climate.<br /><br />Only final-solution segue of all these debates; obsessive consumerism, greed, wealth inequality, abuse, violence, addictions, ... you name it, is, I'm afraid, human psyche. In this particular example, portion of it that coversOlmo Sirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12676046817371118267noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-32114140215686824672021-02-28T01:11:39.437-05:002021-02-28T01:11:39.437-05:00To morris,
I personally don't have a problem ...To morris,<br /><br />I personally don't have a problem with attacking some sort of "consensu" but I do have a problem.with bad physics...<br /><br />Anything that can be easily tested and proven incorrect (like uv light increasing global temperatures through heating water) SHOULD be dismissed out of hand...<br /><br />My only issue is with the unknowns...feedbacks, natural rolandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12633300610666796174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-66743938647621321312021-02-27T12:18:01.294-05:002021-02-27T12:18:01.294-05:00To Sabine
I am not advocating the view ozone is no...To Sabine<br />I am not advocating the view ozone is not a greenhouse gas. What I wrote does not contradict the consensus view or is promotion of controversy. What I do suggest is that there are other views about ozone holes, UV, water structures volcanos and which might contribute to global warming to some (unknown) degree. Individually these ideas are not at all popular for unrelated reasons. Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490835915837052199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-27656073691532561232021-02-27T08:56:23.969-05:002021-02-27T08:56:23.969-05:00To morris...
You are correct, water does not abso...To morris...<br /><br />You are correct, water does not absorb blue/uv as much as other wavelengths, that is what water looks blue. UV also does not have the energy to penetrate deep enough in to oceans to cause any significant warming.<br /><br />As a civil engineer, I know many (if not most) wastewater treatment plants use UV disinfection before effluent is released. These systems release rolandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12633300610666796174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-52640421736098149642021-02-27T06:18:53.212-05:002021-02-27T06:18:53.212-05:00Is this comment addressed at me? I wrote ozone dep...Is this comment addressed at me? I wrote ozone depletion (yes, in the stratosphere) has a cooling effect. Morris is the one who claims it contributes to warming. I think you're wrong about who is wrong, or else, I don't understand who or what you are talking about. Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-14232637090563561362021-02-27T05:52:21.622-05:002021-02-27T05:52:21.622-05:00I think that you misread your source on Ozone effe...I think that you misread your source on Ozone effects on temperature, I quote: "The major ozone losses that have been observed in the lower stratosphere due to the human-produced chlorine- and bromine-containing gases have a cooling effect on the Earth's surface. On the other hand, the ozone increases that are estimated to have occurred in the troposphere because of surface-pollution CapitalistImperialistPighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17919587059726337357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-8558594644678016652021-02-27T00:46:33.162-05:002021-02-27T00:46:33.162-05:00Morris,
You have it backwards. Ozone is a greenho...Morris,<br /><br />You have it backwards. Ozone is a greenhouse gas, so actually ozone depletion has a cooling effect. Please remember that to get a greenhouse effect, it doesn't matter what goes through (as you write) but what gets stuck. Ozone doesn't have large effect on the overall temperature though, and compared to CO2 it's entirely negligible. I don't think this a Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-8088459092144325792021-02-26T16:21:56.357-05:002021-02-26T16:21:56.357-05:00There is a view that ozone holes contribute to glo...There is a view that ozone holes contribute to global warming by admitting more UV which warms the oceans disproportionally. That view is not widely held or popular. The greater effect of UV vs. other frequencies on water EM energy absorption is considered generally crackpot. That hypothesis is based on water having a different phase (structure) in certain circumstances. The effect of volcanos Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11490835915837052199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-3581147931721245022021-02-26T11:44:49.682-05:002021-02-26T11:44:49.682-05:00“We just got a big breakdown and dump of arctic ai...“We just got a big breakdown and dump of arctic air here.” That was a pretty impressive breakdown of the polar vortex. Monitoring the climatereanalyzer site, from the University of Maine daily, I noticed a huge blob of ultra cold purple air break off from the polar region and descend into central, south Canada just before it plunged into the US. Looking at pictures and news footage of highwaysDavid Schroederhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18048116250413347228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-83644782899240887212021-02-25T10:54:36.907-05:002021-02-25T10:54:36.907-05:00So I hit up Google to answer my question, the cons...So I hit up Google to answer my question, the consensus seems to be that the Ozone Layer is recovering, and expected to be fully recovered circa 2060. <br />It would seem though that we can't collectively sigh with relief yet.C Thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723392308309671498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-55746337921899046302021-02-25T10:04:08.199-05:002021-02-25T10:04:08.199-05:00I have had to endure sufficiently many people like...I have had to endure sufficiently many people like you who are "just wondering" but can't be bothered to do anything else than post their "just wondering" comments. I will not approve further comments from you. Do your reading. Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-4795333420112423592021-02-25T07:35:28.791-05:002021-02-25T07:35:28.791-05:00You seem to jump to conclusions of my beliefs and ...You seem to jump to conclusions of my beliefs and knowledge that are not supported by anything you could have possibly read in my question.<br /><br />So again, the same questions apply. How can we tell the difference between it being a natural feature of the atmosphere and being manmade, when the data shows no change since montreal? The yearly changes are huge compared to any possible trend inrolandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12633300610666796174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-60619460125178073052021-02-25T07:21:57.909-05:002021-02-25T07:21:57.909-05:00I guess the brief summary is you didn't get it...I guess the brief summary is you didn't get it wrong, it's just that the news you read was somewhat incomplete. Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-85288942093574107192021-02-25T07:20:43.337-05:002021-02-25T07:20:43.337-05:00The ozone hole over the South Pole has indeed been...The ozone hole over the South Pole has indeed been getting better. The ozone hole over the North Pole, as I said, is a somewhat unusual occurrence, and it's unclear whether it'll become a more frequent visitor. As to the overall amount of ozone. My understanding is it's roughly recovering as expected, but the bad news is that the distribution is changing, which means it's not Sabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-77298453405534952302021-02-25T07:14:11.297-05:002021-02-25T07:14:11.297-05:00Sorry if this comment doesn't add to discussio...Sorry if this comment doesn't add to discussion of this video.<br />So, I had the impression/I think I read somewhere that ozone depletion was easing up and that the polar holes were shrinking. I'm disconcerted that I had it so wrong, how/where the heck did this erroneous impression come from? Or did I just make it up?C Thompsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01723392308309671498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-43668235581111204382021-02-25T05:59:54.653-05:002021-02-25T05:59:54.653-05:00Roland,
The British Antarctic Survey began their ...Roland,<br /><br /><a href="https://ozonewatch.gsfc.nasa.gov/facts/history.html" rel="nofollow">The British Antarctic Survey began their measurements in the late 1957, before the ozone hole appeared for the first time</a>. This information is easy to find if you had bothered to look for it. Why did you not look for this information? Is it maybe because you thought you knew the answer? Do you comeSabine Hossenfelderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06151209308084588985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-11762281998672571922021-02-25T04:32:12.203-05:002021-02-25T04:32:12.203-05:00My question is, how do we know the ozone hole isn&...My question is, how do we know the ozone hole isn't just a natural feature of the stratosphere? We only noticed the hole once we were able to actually measure it, but doesn't it seem logical that it has always been there, given, as this article says, it is also caused by cold temperatures? <br /><br />35 years of Montreal hasn't really affected it much...not in data that I have seen, rolandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12633300610666796174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-51938541662672691232021-02-25T02:59:49.398-05:002021-02-25T02:59:49.398-05:00Interesting. There is also a tangential discovery ...Interesting. There is also a tangential discovery of Laplacian pressure waves in atmosphere oscillating in different modes. "[Takatoshi Sakazaki] was initially focused on temperature variations, and he viewed the pressure peaks as unwelcome noise." The article: https://www.quantamagazine.org/weather-data-reveals-long-predicted-pressure-waves-20200813/<br /><br />It's certainly Vadimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17350813784317789818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22973357.post-43914120062276972222021-02-24T14:31:51.565-05:002021-02-24T14:31:51.565-05:00The Montreal Protocol worked fairly well because i...The Montreal Protocol worked fairly well because it mostly called for the replacement of CFCs with other compounds. This turned out to be fairly easy to do from an economic standpoint. Eliminating CO_2 emissions is a much more difficult problem. <br /><br />I learned a while back that Earth has an EM wave of 8Hz that is confined by the ionosphere. This is a standing wave that covers Earth. It hasLawrence Crowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12090839464038445335noreply@blogger.com